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	<title>
	Comments on: When jurors bring expertise	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:04:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Supremacy Claus		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Supremacy Claus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ted could not get out of jury duty. That&#039;s funny.

He should have raised his hand to correct the judge&#039;s misruling. That would have done it.

Next time I am called, because I am stupid enough to vote, I may decide to serve. I wonder if they have internet access to Overlawyered in jail. I would send messages from there.

I have been excused a dozen times by describing experience in tribunals, as litigant and expert.

Vote if you want to be called. Tell them you know about something to be excused.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted could not get out of jury duty. That&#8217;s funny.</p>
<p>He should have raised his hand to correct the judge&#8217;s misruling. That would have done it.</p>
<p>Next time I am called, because I am stupid enough to vote, I may decide to serve. I wonder if they have internet access to Overlawyered in jail. I would send messages from there.</p>
<p>I have been excused a dozen times by describing experience in tribunals, as litigant and expert.</p>
<p>Vote if you want to be called. Tell them you know about something to be excused.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2374</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2374</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was voir dired for a complex contractual dispute, and was the first person thrown off the panel once it became clear that I was the only person there that even knew what a financial instrument was.  Instead, I was permitted to serve as an alternate in a LA County civil case where the only dispute was damages.

It was a painful experience where I watched one attorney make an incorrect hearsay objection, the opposing attorney fail to explain why the objection was wrong, and the judge make the wrong ruling.  Everyone was remarkably disrespectful of the jury&#039;s time; we&#039;d go through maybe three hours of testimony a day because witnesses weren&#039;t ready to be scheduled.  As a second-alternate, I wasn&#039;t allowed to return to my office as the jury deliberated because they might reach a verdict; this was so even though the attorneys returned to their offices that were a half-hour further away on the 10.  As I watched the economic expert stumble through an explanation of net present value, it struck me at that moment that I could step down from the box and, knowing nothing about the case, do a better job than either of the attorneys, the witness, or the judge.  The jury (without me) ended up reaching a compromise verdict because of one juror who insisted on payment even as video evidence showed that the plaintiff was faking.

It was a confidence-builder to see that none of these people were starving for lack of work.  But not so much a confidence builder that the status quo was an efficient means of resolving disputes.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was voir dired for a complex contractual dispute, and was the first person thrown off the panel once it became clear that I was the only person there that even knew what a financial instrument was.  Instead, I was permitted to serve as an alternate in a LA County civil case where the only dispute was damages.</p>
<p>It was a painful experience where I watched one attorney make an incorrect hearsay objection, the opposing attorney fail to explain why the objection was wrong, and the judge make the wrong ruling.  Everyone was remarkably disrespectful of the jury&#8217;s time; we&#8217;d go through maybe three hours of testimony a day because witnesses weren&#8217;t ready to be scheduled.  As a second-alternate, I wasn&#8217;t allowed to return to my office as the jury deliberated because they might reach a verdict; this was so even though the attorneys returned to their offices that were a half-hour further away on the 10.  As I watched the economic expert stumble through an explanation of net present value, it struck me at that moment that I could step down from the box and, knowing nothing about the case, do a better job than either of the attorneys, the witness, or the judge.  The jury (without me) ended up reaching a compromise verdict because of one juror who insisted on payment even as video evidence showed that the plaintiff was faking.</p>
<p>It was a confidence-builder to see that none of these people were starving for lack of work.  But not so much a confidence builder that the status quo was an efficient means of resolving disputes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2373</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2373</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a cell biologist, I have always looked forward to (at least once) serving on a jury, where I could put my training for systematic thinking to good use.  Alas, as I pass into my 4th decade of life, I&#039;ve never even been &lt;i&gt;called&lt;/i&gt;.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a cell biologist, I have always looked forward to (at least once) serving on a jury, where I could put my training for systematic thinking to good use.  Alas, as I pass into my 4th decade of life, I&#8217;ve never even been <i>called</i>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: yclipse		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yclipse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a lawyer specializing in civil litigation, and I was not unselected to serve (note the phraseology) on a jury in a small criminal case. Presumably the prosecutor felt that I was a conservative sort, being a defense lawyer. But he probably did regret it after the acquittal. Being a lawyer, I think I had a good sense of the meaning of &quot;beyond a reasonable doubt&quot;.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a lawyer specializing in civil litigation, and I was not unselected to serve (note the phraseology) on a jury in a small criminal case. Presumably the prosecutor felt that I was a conservative sort, being a defense lawyer. But he probably did regret it after the acquittal. Being a lawyer, I think I had a good sense of the meaning of &#8220;beyond a reasonable doubt&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Supremacy Claus		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2371</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Supremacy Claus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2371</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In the days of King John and the Magna Carta, the jurors  had watched the boundaries of the property being pointed out at the time of the transfer, and now in dispute at a trial. They knew the criminal from chilhood, his prior acts. They served as experts in the local facts of the case, for a wisdom of the crowd advantage.

The lawyers eliminated that wisdom of the crowd advantage to replace it with poor saps who cannot get out of jury duty, are easily manipulated with cheap theatrics. If any juror cannot be manipulated, they are excused. These shenanigans are permitted by judges whose canpaigns are financed by these lawyers.

A better tactic would have been to wait for the verdict. If it was wrong, then tell the judge you knew all about the machine, to cause a mistrial. The risk is that the little caesar on the bench would throw the truth telling juror in jail. Tell the truth, go to jail.

Despite all that lawyer trickery, plaintiffs in civil suits lose about 75% of the time. Even the hopelessly ignorant juries find no merit in most cases.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the days of King John and the Magna Carta, the jurors  had watched the boundaries of the property being pointed out at the time of the transfer, and now in dispute at a trial. They knew the criminal from chilhood, his prior acts. They served as experts in the local facts of the case, for a wisdom of the crowd advantage.</p>
<p>The lawyers eliminated that wisdom of the crowd advantage to replace it with poor saps who cannot get out of jury duty, are easily manipulated with cheap theatrics. If any juror cannot be manipulated, they are excused. These shenanigans are permitted by judges whose canpaigns are financed by these lawyers.</p>
<p>A better tactic would have been to wait for the verdict. If it was wrong, then tell the judge you knew all about the machine, to cause a mistrial. The risk is that the little caesar on the bench would throw the truth telling juror in jail. Tell the truth, go to jail.</p>
<p>Despite all that lawyer trickery, plaintiffs in civil suits lose about 75% of the time. Even the hopelessly ignorant juries find no merit in most cases.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2370</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2370</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a lawyer and was chosen to serve on a jury for, of all things, a legal malpractice case.

I assume neither side wanted to show any sign of weakness by stiking me.

I refused to serve as foreman, however, although I believe I was helpful to the other jurors by explaning the convoluted jury instructions we were given.

One lesson I learned - if you sue a law firm for malpractice, and the firm defends itself at trial -  best not to be out-lawyered in the courtroom.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a lawyer and was chosen to serve on a jury for, of all things, a legal malpractice case.</p>
<p>I assume neither side wanted to show any sign of weakness by stiking me.</p>
<p>I refused to serve as foreman, however, although I believe I was helpful to the other jurors by explaning the convoluted jury instructions we were given.</p>
<p>One lesson I learned &#8211; if you sue a law firm for malpractice, and the firm defends itself at trial &#8211;  best not to be out-lawyered in the courtroom.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Collins		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Collins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was told by the Judge that I wasn&#039;t to discuss this with anyone associated with the trial or the media.  At the time my job required a security clearance and I wasn&#039;t about to jeopardize that.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was told by the Judge that I wasn&#8217;t to discuss this with anyone associated with the trial or the media.  At the time my job required a security clearance and I wasn&#8217;t about to jeopardize that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2368</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2368</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[James,

What prevented you from approaching the other attorney with your concerns once you were dismissed from the jury?

Is there a legal rule against this?


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>What prevented you from approaching the other attorney with your concerns once you were dismissed from the jury?</p>
<p>Is there a legal rule against this?</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Collins		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Collins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few years ago I served on a jury in a civil case against a machine manufacturer.  During the trial one of the so called experts stated something that  I knew to be incorrect.  During a recess, I asked to speak to the judge and told him what was going on and that I knew from having used that type of machine before that the statement was wrong.  I was thanked for my service up to that point and was removed from the jury, being replaced by an alternate.  I still wonder if the statement influenced the outcome of that trial.  My brother-in-law told me that it just proved his point that the truth has no business in court unless it is to someone&#039;s advantage.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago I served on a jury in a civil case against a machine manufacturer.  During the trial one of the so called experts stated something that  I knew to be incorrect.  During a recess, I asked to speak to the judge and told him what was going on and that I knew from having used that type of machine before that the statement was wrong.  I was thanked for my service up to that point and was removed from the jury, being replaced by an alternate.  I still wonder if the statement influenced the outcome of that trial.  My brother-in-law told me that it just proved his point that the truth has no business in court unless it is to someone&#8217;s advantage.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Duqlaw98		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/when-jurors-bring-expertise/comment-page-1/#comment-2366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duqlaw98]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=3174#comment-2366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Attorneys do not want fellow attorneys on juries precisely because lawyers are not easily confused.  Lawyers, as well as other logical thinkers such as engineers, are able to understand and analyze complex evidence, understand the central legal issues and the requisite burden of proof in a case, and apply the relevant facts to the law.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attorneys do not want fellow attorneys on juries precisely because lawyers are not easily confused.  Lawyers, as well as other logical thinkers such as engineers, are able to understand and analyze complex evidence, understand the central legal issues and the requisite burden of proof in a case, and apply the relevant facts to the law.</p>
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