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	<title>
	Comments on: McDonald&#8217;s parking lot shooting	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:38:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: markm		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5846</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[markm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5846</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;hire security guards, have lights, cameras, prosecute others who cause trouble, the normal things one would expect from a business that advertises itself as a safe, clean, family style restaurant.&quot;

The shooter fired from outside the property. Parking lot lights just gave him light to shoot by (if it was night time). Security guards are not often effective in situations like this, but they are always expensive; do you want to pay $10 for a Big Mac? (I&#039;ve never seen a security guard at a restaurant, no matter how priced, unless they served drinks and expected trouble with drunk customers. Bars have bouncers, but never have someone out in the parking lot and armed for a gun battle.) Cameras aren&#039;t much of a deterrent for crimes like this, even when they are focused on the right spot - but would it even be legal for McD&#039;s to place cameras looking at other businesses?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;hire security guards, have lights, cameras, prosecute others who cause trouble, the normal things one would expect from a business that advertises itself as a safe, clean, family style restaurant.&#8221;</p>
<p>The shooter fired from outside the property. Parking lot lights just gave him light to shoot by (if it was night time). Security guards are not often effective in situations like this, but they are always expensive; do you want to pay $10 for a Big Mac? (I&#8217;ve never seen a security guard at a restaurant, no matter how priced, unless they served drinks and expected trouble with drunk customers. Bars have bouncers, but never have someone out in the parking lot and armed for a gun battle.) Cameras aren&#8217;t much of a deterrent for crimes like this, even when they are focused on the right spot &#8211; but would it even be legal for McD&#8217;s to place cameras looking at other businesses?</p>
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		<title>
		By: CR		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5845</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5845</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is just another example that legally a person is not accountable for their actions. Or, at least someone else should pay, including fees, and a high percentage of the settlement.  Oh, I forgot, lets just call it &quot;Joint but Severable&quot;.  You are partially responsible because you happen to be there and might have money.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just another example that legally a person is not accountable for their actions. Or, at least someone else should pay, including fees, and a high percentage of the settlement.  Oh, I forgot, lets just call it &#8220;Joint but Severable&#8221;.  You are partially responsible because you happen to be there and might have money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TC		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5844</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 22:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5844</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Two more targets, the Van manufacture!  The gas station they bought fuel from.

Were they smoking while shooting or being shot?  There is another target.

Oh and yes the city and the cops, especially if the cops have the &quot;to protect and to serve&quot; printed on their cars!

How about the sing manufacture since it may have been providing a lighted target as well.

How about somebody suing the attorney that brought such a stupid case into an over crowded court room in the first place!  ??
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two more targets, the Van manufacture!  The gas station they bought fuel from.</p>
<p>Were they smoking while shooting or being shot?  There is another target.</p>
<p>Oh and yes the city and the cops, especially if the cops have the &#8220;to protect and to serve&#8221; printed on their cars!</p>
<p>How about the sing manufacture since it may have been providing a lighted target as well.</p>
<p>How about somebody suing the attorney that brought such a stupid case into an over crowded court room in the first place!  ??</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joe Bingham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5843</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Bingham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5843</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[McDonalds will probably sue the city, holding them responsible for the policies which have led to high crime in the area, and King High, which should have inculcated non-violence in its students.

Aw.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McDonalds will probably sue the city, holding them responsible for the policies which have led to high crime in the area, and King High, which should have inculcated non-violence in its students.</p>
<p>Aw.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joe Bingham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5842</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Bingham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5842</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I take comfort in the fact that juries aren&#039;t required to follow crappy (pardon me) &quot;established law&quot; which actually constitutes lawless assignment of liability.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take comfort in the fact that juries aren&#8217;t required to follow crappy (pardon me) &#8220;established law&#8221; which actually constitutes lawless assignment of liability.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5841</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5841</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is there any doubt that if McDonalds tried to remove troublemakers from its property, they would now be looking at a profiling/racism suit?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any doubt that if McDonalds tried to remove troublemakers from its property, they would now be looking at a profiling/racism suit?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The plaintiffs will search through McDonald&#039;s records for all discussions of possible security measures.  McDonald&#039;s will have considered options A, B, C, D, and E for safety, and chose one of them (call it A); the plaintiffs will then find a for-hire expert who will say that option B, while more expensive, would have prevented this crime, and that McDonald&#039;s put &quot;profits ahead of safety,&quot; in choosing the cheaper option instead and demand the jury find McDonald&#039;s responsible; jurors hand-picked to never have had to deal with actual decision-making will exercise 20/20 hindsight to hold the company liable.  Recognizing this likelihood and the expense of defending, most insurers will settle when faced with this extortion.

We have lots and lots of deep-pockets cases like this at Overlawyered, and this isn&#039;t even the most egregious one.  There was another Florida case where an apartment resident who successfully blamed her apartment complex for a carjacking, even though she renewed her lease, and presumably chose  for herself that she would rather have cheaper rent and less security.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The plaintiffs will search through McDonald&#8217;s records for all discussions of possible security measures.  McDonald&#8217;s will have considered options A, B, C, D, and E for safety, and chose one of them (call it A); the plaintiffs will then find a for-hire expert who will say that option B, while more expensive, would have prevented this crime, and that McDonald&#8217;s put &#8220;profits ahead of safety,&#8221; in choosing the cheaper option instead and demand the jury find McDonald&#8217;s responsible; jurors hand-picked to never have had to deal with actual decision-making will exercise 20/20 hindsight to hold the company liable.  Recognizing this likelihood and the expense of defending, most insurers will settle when faced with this extortion.</p>
<p>We have lots and lots of deep-pockets cases like this at Overlawyered, and this isn&#8217;t even the most egregious one.  There was another Florida case where an apartment resident who successfully blamed her apartment complex for a carjacking, even though she renewed her lease, and presumably chose  for herself that she would rather have cheaper rent and less security.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: David Wilson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5839</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Wilson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5839</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Moe Levine thinks &quot;security guards&quot; are a required part of a &quot;safe, clean, family-style restaurant&quot;?

Yikes! I&#039;d hate to go on his restaurant crawler.

Of course, the attempt to make the criminal acts of third parties a mere matter of &quot;premises liability&quot; for which the property owner is liable is ABSURD. As Western society continues its slide into Third-World style barbarism, its bottom feeders will take advantage of situations like this (ever-increasing) in order to profit. They craftily cast blame on &quot;big business&quot; (and more often, little business) as the real criminal, while the gangster in the do-rag is nothing more than an innocent part of the pretty scenery. If the duty of care extends to the social pathologies of New America, there would be a corresponding right to DEAL with such pathologies, would there not? Say, keeping troublemakers away from the property. But the same lawyer class vulturing in after McDonald&#039;s would swoop in yet faster to sue the store for &quot;insensitive&quot; attempts to keep the premises safe and orderly. The ACLU would cry discrimination against youth, class, race, you name it. And once again, responsible actors are faced with forked roads where every branch - including backing up down the road - leads to legal trouble. A legal system shot through with that is no system at all.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moe Levine thinks &#8220;security guards&#8221; are a required part of a &#8220;safe, clean, family-style restaurant&#8221;?</p>
<p>Yikes! I&#8217;d hate to go on his restaurant crawler.</p>
<p>Of course, the attempt to make the criminal acts of third parties a mere matter of &#8220;premises liability&#8221; for which the property owner is liable is ABSURD. As Western society continues its slide into Third-World style barbarism, its bottom feeders will take advantage of situations like this (ever-increasing) in order to profit. They craftily cast blame on &#8220;big business&#8221; (and more often, little business) as the real criminal, while the gangster in the do-rag is nothing more than an innocent part of the pretty scenery. If the duty of care extends to the social pathologies of New America, there would be a corresponding right to DEAL with such pathologies, would there not? Say, keeping troublemakers away from the property. But the same lawyer class vulturing in after McDonald&#8217;s would swoop in yet faster to sue the store for &#8220;insensitive&#8221; attempts to keep the premises safe and orderly. The ACLU would cry discrimination against youth, class, race, you name it. And once again, responsible actors are faced with forked roads where every branch &#8211; including backing up down the road &#8211; leads to legal trouble. A legal system shot through with that is no system at all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: tsiroth		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tsiroth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JB: Probably hire armed security guards to patrol the premises.  At least, I suspect that would be the argument.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB: Probably hire armed security guards to patrol the premises.  At least, I suspect that would be the argument.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jb		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/mcdonalds-parking-lot-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-5837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4510#comment-5837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is no security adequate enough to prevent shootings like this.  The man got out of a van and shot people.  Maybe security could have chased him down/shot him after he opened fire, but the whole point of guns is that you can shoot people before third parties can react.  I mean, this was in the parking lot, which is a large area with parts often obscured by cars.  It&#039;s not like he did it in the dinin area.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no security adequate enough to prevent shootings like this.  The man got out of a van and shot people.  Maybe security could have chased him down/shot him after he opened fire, but the whole point of guns is that you can shoot people before third parties can react.  I mean, this was in the parking lot, which is a large area with parts often obscured by cars.  It&#8217;s not like he did it in the dinin area.</p>
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