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	<title>
	Comments on: Moral: don&#8217;t treat the morbidly obese	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:04:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Deoxy		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deoxy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5924</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Any level of heat capable of giving a burn is capable of giving a third dgree burn if left burning long enough.

So, though a person with proper sensation would have removed the pad and suffered a mild first degre burn (if that), this patient did NOT feel it, and left the pad in place.  Burning continued... even if the damage was occuring slowly, it would continue until it had burned the entire thickness of the skin (third degree or &quot;full thickness&quot; burn).

Such a slow burn might actually appear much less bad than it actually was, as most third degree burns are caused by very high heat, which has some scondary effects (like charring of the skin - pleasant thought, eh?).
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any level of heat capable of giving a burn is capable of giving a third dgree burn if left burning long enough.</p>
<p>So, though a person with proper sensation would have removed the pad and suffered a mild first degre burn (if that), this patient did NOT feel it, and left the pad in place.  Burning continued&#8230; even if the damage was occuring slowly, it would continue until it had burned the entire thickness of the skin (third degree or &#8220;full thickness&#8221; burn).</p>
<p>Such a slow burn might actually appear much less bad than it actually was, as most third degree burns are caused by very high heat, which has some scondary effects (like charring of the skin &#8211; pleasant thought, eh?).</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5923</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ok Ted,

How does one get a third degree burn from a heating pad to a single toe?

If the burn was exaggerated, then maybe it wouldn&#039;t call for a specialist.

Full blown Diabetes is nasty. That is the nature of the disease.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok Ted,</p>
<p>How does one get a third degree burn from a heating pad to a single toe?</p>
<p>If the burn was exaggerated, then maybe it wouldn&#8217;t call for a specialist.</p>
<p>Full blown Diabetes is nasty. That is the nature of the disease.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While all burns to the bone are third-degree burns, not all third-degree burns are burns to the bone, so the premise behind your comment is not necessarily true.  But it could well be the case that the earlier story exaggerated the burn.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While all burns to the bone are third-degree burns, not all third-degree burns are burns to the bone, so the premise behind your comment is not necessarily true.  But it could well be the case that the earlier story exaggerated the burn.</p>
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		<title>
		By: markm		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[markm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ted, 1st degree burns are quite possible with a heating pad, but IIRC, 2nd degree is burning through the skin, and 3rd is burned to the bone. A heating pad that got hot enough to burn through flesh would be on fire itself. And you don&#039;t treat such burns with topical cream. It&#039;s not a judgment call - quite aside from training and knowledge, would &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; ever smear ointment on a protruding toe-bone and think that would be adequate treatment?

So, the reporting has to be wrong. It was probably a 1st degree burn and/or an infection from stubbing the toe, and the ointment and antibiotics sound like the appropriate first treatment. Where things went wrong is in the followup; the infection got out of control by the next time the doctor saw it, and there isn&#039;t enough information here to say why it wasn&#039;t found sooner. Normally, a busy doctor might expect a patient to change dressings once or twice a day and come back in if it didn&#039;t seem to be healing properly. In this case, the patient probably couldn&#039;t see or feel his toes, so someone else should have been checking at least once a day - but who&#039;d be willing to trek over to the doctor&#039;s office daily for a stubbed toe? I&#039;d like to have a tape of the doctor&#039;s instructions before the guy left the office.

In any case, I&#039;d put the patient&#039;s responsibility at over 50%. I&#039;ve treated worse injuries on myself, no prescription antiobiotics needed. What made this case different was that the guy was so fat his systems were failing before the accident.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, 1st degree burns are quite possible with a heating pad, but IIRC, 2nd degree is burning through the skin, and 3rd is burned to the bone. A heating pad that got hot enough to burn through flesh would be on fire itself. And you don&#8217;t treat such burns with topical cream. It&#8217;s not a judgment call &#8211; quite aside from training and knowledge, would <i>you</i> ever smear ointment on a protruding toe-bone and think that would be adequate treatment?</p>
<p>So, the reporting has to be wrong. It was probably a 1st degree burn and/or an infection from stubbing the toe, and the ointment and antibiotics sound like the appropriate first treatment. Where things went wrong is in the followup; the infection got out of control by the next time the doctor saw it, and there isn&#8217;t enough information here to say why it wasn&#8217;t found sooner. Normally, a busy doctor might expect a patient to change dressings once or twice a day and come back in if it didn&#8217;t seem to be healing properly. In this case, the patient probably couldn&#8217;t see or feel his toes, so someone else should have been checking at least once a day &#8211; but who&#8217;d be willing to trek over to the doctor&#8217;s office daily for a stubbed toe? I&#8217;d like to have a tape of the doctor&#8217;s instructions before the guy left the office.</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;d put the patient&#8217;s responsibility at over 50%. I&#8217;ve treated worse injuries on myself, no prescription antiobiotics needed. What made this case different was that the guy was so fat his systems were failing before the accident.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5920</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 08:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5920</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In his rookie season, Joe Dimaggio missed a few weeks because he was burned by a heating pad: he had no experience with the treatment, and didn&#039;t want to admit pain to the trainer as the pad started to burn.

I don&#039;t have any reason to doubt that Olanyk burned himself.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his rookie season, Joe Dimaggio missed a few weeks because he was burned by a heating pad: he had no experience with the treatment, and didn&#8217;t want to admit pain to the trainer as the pad started to burn.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any reason to doubt that Olanyk burned himself.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5919</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 08:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5919</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How does one get third degree burns from a heating pad?

Where was the topical ointment applied? One would suppose on the wounded toe. Then why didn&#039;t the person applying the cream notice that the toe was rotting?

I suspect that the man stubbed his toe and that gangrein had set in. The discolloration was mistaken for a third degee burn.


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does one get third degree burns from a heating pad?</p>
<p>Where was the topical ointment applied? One would suppose on the wounded toe. Then why didn&#8217;t the person applying the cream notice that the toe was rotting?</p>
<p>I suspect that the man stubbed his toe and that gangrein had set in. The discolloration was mistaken for a third degee burn.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dick King		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/02/moral-dont-treat-the-morbidly-obese/comment-page-1/#comment-5918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dick King]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4532#comment-5918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m normally sympathetic to the point of view of Overlawyered, but in this particular case I &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; think the doctor committed malpractice.  A third degree burn generally deserves a referral, IMHO, possibly even when the patient has nothing else is going on.  The benefit of living in a country which spends a lot of money on health care is that we have our possible problems looked at while they&#039;re still small.

However, to sustain a judgment it needs to be shown that a burn doctor could have saved the foot, which isn&#039;t obvious.

-dk

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m normally sympathetic to the point of view of Overlawyered, but in this particular case I <i>do</i> think the doctor committed malpractice.  A third degree burn generally deserves a referral, IMHO, possibly even when the patient has nothing else is going on.  The benefit of living in a country which spends a lot of money on health care is that we have our possible problems looked at while they&#8217;re still small.</p>
<p>However, to sustain a judgment it needs to be shown that a burn doctor could have saved the foot, which isn&#8217;t obvious.</p>
<p>-dk</p>
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