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	<title>
	Comments on: Cheating student sues school	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 02:03:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Yoda		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7292</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yoda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 02:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7292</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey LawVibe,

I&#039;m curious as to your line of reasoning.  If someone were to break into your home, steal your property, you&#039;d want them charged, right?

Same principle applies here.  He allegedly went into a system that wasn&#039;t his (without authorization), for the express purpose of taking material that did not belong to him, with the motive of using it for his own personal gain.  In order to do this he had to use a specialized application (I&#039;m willing to bet that term or &quot;hacking tools&quot; is used) to defeat an authentication mechanism used for the express purpose of keeping unauthorized users out.

I&#039;m even willing to bet that he had to go past at least one disclaimer screen (which usually requires one to acknowledge that their actions can be monitored and that any unauthorized access will not be permitted and possibly used against them in a court of law).  I know that several school districts use written security banners to ensure that ignorance of the rules is not an option when it comes to the district&#039;s security policies.

That brings up an interesting point.  Since we don&#039;t know what the information security policy is for the school district, we don&#039;t know their actual security posture and they may be required by their own &quot;John principle&quot; to get law enforcement involved.

Sadly, if the student&#039;s family wants to really display some chutzpah, the school board can easily use existing cyber-law to royally foul up the kid&#039;s life (since the media is using the deportation issue to dramatize the incident, it&#039;s also good to mention that his native country doesn&#039;t take a kind view to cyber-crime either... unless done for the benefit of their government that is).

Regardless, I do believe that a violation such as this does require the student&#039;s visa to be revoked.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey LawVibe,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to your line of reasoning.  If someone were to break into your home, steal your property, you&#8217;d want them charged, right?</p>
<p>Same principle applies here.  He allegedly went into a system that wasn&#8217;t his (without authorization), for the express purpose of taking material that did not belong to him, with the motive of using it for his own personal gain.  In order to do this he had to use a specialized application (I&#8217;m willing to bet that term or &#8220;hacking tools&#8221; is used) to defeat an authentication mechanism used for the express purpose of keeping unauthorized users out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m even willing to bet that he had to go past at least one disclaimer screen (which usually requires one to acknowledge that their actions can be monitored and that any unauthorized access will not be permitted and possibly used against them in a court of law).  I know that several school districts use written security banners to ensure that ignorance of the rules is not an option when it comes to the district&#8217;s security policies.</p>
<p>That brings up an interesting point.  Since we don&#8217;t know what the information security policy is for the school district, we don&#8217;t know their actual security posture and they may be required by their own &#8220;John principle&#8221; to get law enforcement involved.</p>
<p>Sadly, if the student&#8217;s family wants to really display some chutzpah, the school board can easily use existing cyber-law to royally foul up the kid&#8217;s life (since the media is using the deportation issue to dramatize the incident, it&#8217;s also good to mention that his native country doesn&#8217;t take a kind view to cyber-crime either&#8230; unless done for the benefit of their government that is).</p>
<p>Regardless, I do believe that a violation such as this does require the student&#8217;s visa to be revoked.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wavemaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7291</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wavemaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 15:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7291</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[adub,

I agree completely -- there is no excuse.

Really, how  &quot;honors&quot; can you be if you (a)discover that the teacher&#039;s password is YOUR name, and (b) don&#039;t ask yourself &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt;.


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>adub,</p>
<p>I agree completely &#8212; there is no excuse.</p>
<p>Really, how  &#8220;honors&#8221; can you be if you (a)discover that the teacher&#8217;s password is YOUR name, and (b) don&#8217;t ask yourself <i>why</i>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LawVibe.com		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7290</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LawVibe.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 21:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7290</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[An F seems fine...

But a felony?!?

COME ON!
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An F seems fine&#8230;</p>
<p>But a felony?!?</p>
<p>COME ON!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Rogers		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7289</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Rogers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 20:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7289</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I miss Kent; the small liberal town set in conservative Portage County...my alma mater.  I almost wish this lad did his deed on May 4th (for added pleasure).
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I miss Kent; the small liberal town set in conservative Portage County&#8230;my alma mater.  I almost wish this lad did his deed on May 4th (for added pleasure).</p>
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		<title>
		By: John N.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John N.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 16:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Yoda on blemishing the student&#039;s record.

I once took a college math class where the instructor marched us at ridiculous pace, dumped tons of work on us, and gave positively brutal exams where you were lucky to answer half the questions in the allotted time.  Out of 20 people starting the class only four made it to the final (one of whom was failing but refused to be run out of the class.)

Come to find out that at the end of the previous semester someone had stolen the instructor&#039;s tests and he was determined that if the unknown miscreant took his class he would either be driven out, or would actually earn his grade and then some.  (tough luck for the rest of us)

I always think of that class when someone says &quot;You&#039;re only hurting yourself when you cheat.&quot;
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Yoda on blemishing the student&#8217;s record.</p>
<p>I once took a college math class where the instructor marched us at ridiculous pace, dumped tons of work on us, and gave positively brutal exams where you were lucky to answer half the questions in the allotted time.  Out of 20 people starting the class only four made it to the final (one of whom was failing but refused to be run out of the class.)</p>
<p>Come to find out that at the end of the previous semester someone had stolen the instructor&#8217;s tests and he was determined that if the unknown miscreant took his class he would either be driven out, or would actually earn his grade and then some.  (tough luck for the rest of us)</p>
<p>I always think of that class when someone says &#8220;You&#8217;re only hurting yourself when you cheat.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adub		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7287</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adub]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 12:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7287</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wavemaker,

It certainly appears he did know Carl was up to something.  It seems to me to be an effort to warn Carl that the teacher knew.  It is amazingly stupid to steal answers using a stolen password that happens to be your name.

In no event, however, would this excuse Carl&#039;s actions.

What if the teacher simply left the answers on his desk, tempting some kid to steal them, does that excuse the theft?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wavemaker,</p>
<p>It certainly appears he did know Carl was up to something.  It seems to me to be an effort to warn Carl that the teacher knew.  It is amazingly stupid to steal answers using a stolen password that happens to be your name.</p>
<p>In no event, however, would this excuse Carl&#8217;s actions.</p>
<p>What if the teacher simply left the answers on his desk, tempting some kid to steal them, does that excuse the theft?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: yoda		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7286</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yoda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 11:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7286</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Justin,

you&#039;re right a felony is inappropriate for this student.

FTA he accessed this computer over the Internet, correct?  Depending on the router path taken, I think a Federal felony would be a more appropriate charge.

I&#039;m thinking that the police probably didn&#039;t get involved until the family began showing the stunning chutzpah shown by some of their allegations.

Can&#039;t speak for the rest of you, but I&#039;ve got no problem putting quite a blemish on the academic career of anyone who cheats.  Especially so when the level of effort put into it (apparently this was an ongoing issue) exceeds the apparent effort put into the class itself.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin,</p>
<p>you&#8217;re right a felony is inappropriate for this student.</p>
<p>FTA he accessed this computer over the Internet, correct?  Depending on the router path taken, I think a Federal felony would be a more appropriate charge.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking that the police probably didn&#8217;t get involved until the family began showing the stunning chutzpah shown by some of their allegations.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t speak for the rest of you, but I&#8217;ve got no problem putting quite a blemish on the academic career of anyone who cheats.  Especially so when the level of effort put into it (apparently this was an ongoing issue) exceeds the apparent effort put into the class itself.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wavemaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7285</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wavemaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 08:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7285</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why would he change the password to the kid&#039;s name if he didn&#039;t have some suspicion that Carl was earning his honors in an unconventional fashion?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would he change the password to the kid&#8217;s name if he didn&#8217;t have some suspicion that Carl was earning his honors in an unconventional fashion?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Nieporent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7284</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Nieporent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 23:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7284</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;He changed the password to my son&#039;s name &#039;Carl&#039; and he&#039;s sitting there waiting. He set a trap and a trap worked. I can&#039;t believe how a teacher would do this,&quot; says Housan Huang, Carl&#039;s father.&lt;/i&gt;

He may be from China, but it appears that he knows the meaning of the word chutzpah.

&lt;i&gt;Carl admits his accessed his biology teacher&#039;s web page from his home computer and asked his friend to figure out the password so he could look at possible test questions for an upcoming test.&lt;i&gt;

The entrapment argument is laughable. This “honor” student didn’t just stumble on the password. He enlisted the aid of a fellow student to break the password. If this lawsuit is successful, I can envision lawyers for burglars suing companies for not making their locks strong enough to prevent them from breaking in.
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/i&gt;
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;He changed the password to my son&#8217;s name &#8216;Carl&#8217; and he&#8217;s sitting there waiting. He set a trap and a trap worked. I can&#8217;t believe how a teacher would do this,&#8221; says Housan Huang, Carl&#8217;s father.</i></p>
<p>He may be from China, but it appears that he knows the meaning of the word chutzpah.</p>
<p><i>Carl admits his accessed his biology teacher&#8217;s web page from his home computer and asked his friend to figure out the password so he could look at possible test questions for an upcoming test.</i><i></p>
<p>The entrapment argument is laughable. This “honor” student didn’t just stumble on the password. He enlisted the aid of a fellow student to break the password. If this lawsuit is successful, I can envision lawyers for burglars suing companies for not making their locks strong enough to prevent them from breaking in.<br />
</i></p>
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		<title>
		By: Justinian Lane		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/05/cheating-student-sues-school/comment-page-1/#comment-7283</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justinian Lane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 23:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4907#comment-7283</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Weird the teacher would set the password to be the kid&#039;s name.

I think going after the kid for a felony is a bit harsh, but an F is appropriate.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weird the teacher would set the password to be the kid&#8217;s name.</p>
<p>I think going after the kid for a felony is a bit harsh, but an F is appropriate.</p>
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