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	<title>
	Comments on: Bork sues the Yale Club	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:40:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1) It&#039;s not a set of stairs.  It&#039;s a foot-high dais.

2) There are many issues in tort reform, such as junk science; excessive noneconomic damages; and bogus claims of injury.  No one is accusing Judge Bork of any of these.

On the other hand, he is seeking punitive damages for a case of what is at best comparative negligence, and the plaintiff here is seeking to blame the defendant for an incident where the plaintiff&#039;s actions are an intervening cause.  Judge Bork is not so addled that the possibilities of accident from a 79-year-old climbing a dais are not at least as foreseeable to him as to the defendant, who is less aware of Bork&#039;s physical capabilities.  New York law may well entitle Bork to such rights, but if so, it&#039;s a problem with New York law.  So when one says &quot;But he&#039;s really injured,&quot; it misses the point of the criticism, and leads to charges of hypocrisy.  Stella Liebeck was really injured, but that does not mean she should recover for spilling coffee on herself.

3) I don&#039;t see why it would be &quot;perverse&quot; for Gibson Dunn to take the case pro bono, any more than the typical law firm pro bono docket.  Even if it is taking the case on contingency, the opportunity cost in doing so, unless they expect the case to settle immediately, would cost it money, so there would still be some pro bono element to the case.  One hopes that Judge Bork isn&#039;t paying $300-$800/hour for this.

4) I&#039;m closing comments because of the volume of hit-and-run trolling or indecent comments I&#039;ve had to delete.  I appreciate those that contributed to the serious discussion, and will publish additional comments from the Bork camp or the Yale Club camp (or if any eyewitnesses wish to write in) if they wish to email to me.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) It&#8217;s not a set of stairs.  It&#8217;s a foot-high dais.</p>
<p>2) There are many issues in tort reform, such as junk science; excessive noneconomic damages; and bogus claims of injury.  No one is accusing Judge Bork of any of these.</p>
<p>On the other hand, he is seeking punitive damages for a case of what is at best comparative negligence, and the plaintiff here is seeking to blame the defendant for an incident where the plaintiff&#8217;s actions are an intervening cause.  Judge Bork is not so addled that the possibilities of accident from a 79-year-old climbing a dais are not at least as foreseeable to him as to the defendant, who is less aware of Bork&#8217;s physical capabilities.  New York law may well entitle Bork to such rights, but if so, it&#8217;s a problem with New York law.  So when one says &#8220;But he&#8217;s really injured,&#8221; it misses the point of the criticism, and leads to charges of hypocrisy.  Stella Liebeck was really injured, but that does not mean she should recover for spilling coffee on herself.</p>
<p>3) I don&#8217;t see why it would be &#8220;perverse&#8221; for Gibson Dunn to take the case pro bono, any more than the typical law firm pro bono docket.  Even if it is taking the case on contingency, the opportunity cost in doing so, unless they expect the case to settle immediately, would cost it money, so there would still be some pro bono element to the case.  One hopes that Judge Bork isn&#8217;t paying $300-$800/hour for this.</p>
<p>4) I&#8217;m closing comments because of the volume of hit-and-run trolling or indecent comments I&#8217;ve had to delete.  I appreciate those that contributed to the serious discussion, and will publish additional comments from the Bork camp or the Yale Club camp (or if any eyewitnesses wish to write in) if they wish to email to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wavemaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7645</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wavemaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 23:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7645</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brian, I don&#039;t think that the general public has any idea what &quot;res ipsa loquitur,&quot; as a legal principle, is --but I think it could be argued (with a straight face) to apply in this case.  Unless losing one&#039;s balance at 80 climbing a set of stairs unaided is considered &quot;negligent,&quot; it can be argued all three elements are present.

I wouldn&#039;t hold Judge Bork, the injured octagenarian, to the responsibility of proof-reading the work product of his counsel, so I do not blame him for inclusion of the punitive damages claim or other aspects of the pleading that Eric mentions. Shame on the pre-eminent law firm for entering into a matter it is apparently not sufficiently familiar with -- it wouldn&#039;t be the first white shoe firm to over-estimated its competence in a practice area far-flug from its comfort zone.

Finally, even as an advocate of tort reform, I am not uncomfortable with the cause of action. Could it not be deemed reasonably forseeable that an octagenarian might need assistance climbing a set of stairs that lack a handrail, and isn&#039;t that assistance easily  extended at no cost?


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I don&#8217;t think that the general public has any idea what &#8220;res ipsa loquitur,&#8221; as a legal principle, is &#8211;but I think it could be argued (with a straight face) to apply in this case.  Unless losing one&#8217;s balance at 80 climbing a set of stairs unaided is considered &#8220;negligent,&#8221; it can be argued all three elements are present.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t hold Judge Bork, the injured octagenarian, to the responsibility of proof-reading the work product of his counsel, so I do not blame him for inclusion of the punitive damages claim or other aspects of the pleading that Eric mentions. Shame on the pre-eminent law firm for entering into a matter it is apparently not sufficiently familiar with &#8212; it wouldn&#8217;t be the first white shoe firm to over-estimated its competence in a practice area far-flug from its comfort zone.</p>
<p>Finally, even as an advocate of tort reform, I am not uncomfortable with the cause of action. Could it not be deemed reasonably forseeable that an octagenarian might need assistance climbing a set of stairs that lack a handrail, and isn&#8217;t that assistance easily  extended at no cost?</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7644</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7644</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this discussion is a silly application of tort reform principles.  It&#039;s a traditional common law personal injury  case of the sort that goes back to the founding of the Republic.  I am not a negligence specialist so I defer to experts on how well drafted the pleading is, but it&#039;s sole purpose is to put the defendant on notice of the claim. It does so. Complaints routinely request measures of recovery not warranted by the law, because it is better to be safe (see need for tort reform on attorney malpractice) than sorry. If he had sued for negligent infliction of emotional distress or RICO it would be on thing, but negligence and gross negligence, for a matter involving physical injury to an OLD MAN, is hardly controversial. I would be very surprised if Bork even read the complaint, and if he did, whether he would feel comfortable second-guessing practicing litigators from that jurisdiction.
Unless Gibson Dunn is perverse, the case is not being done pro bono.  I suspect it is being done within the standard range for contingeny rates for this kind of work, with the firm seeing it as an opportunity to give practical experience to junior attorneys. The most interesting thing to me is the choice of venue.  I would expect a personal injury case to be filed in state court, with  allegations that on their face neither pleaded or allowed on obvious inference of damages over $75,000, then dare the defendant to try to remove to federal court.  Maybe the delay to trial is much greater in NY County than SDNY, a crucial consideration for a client of that age.
Although there are no doubt many distinguished lawyers among the members of the Yale Club, I assume the matter will be tendered to the insurance carrier, which will put off settlement until the eve of trial. (Room for reform there.)
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this discussion is a silly application of tort reform principles.  It&#8217;s a traditional common law personal injury  case of the sort that goes back to the founding of the Republic.  I am not a negligence specialist so I defer to experts on how well drafted the pleading is, but it&#8217;s sole purpose is to put the defendant on notice of the claim. It does so. Complaints routinely request measures of recovery not warranted by the law, because it is better to be safe (see need for tort reform on attorney malpractice) than sorry. If he had sued for negligent infliction of emotional distress or RICO it would be on thing, but negligence and gross negligence, for a matter involving physical injury to an OLD MAN, is hardly controversial. I would be very surprised if Bork even read the complaint, and if he did, whether he would feel comfortable second-guessing practicing litigators from that jurisdiction.<br />
Unless Gibson Dunn is perverse, the case is not being done pro bono.  I suspect it is being done within the standard range for contingeny rates for this kind of work, with the firm seeing it as an opportunity to give practical experience to junior attorneys. The most interesting thing to me is the choice of venue.  I would expect a personal injury case to be filed in state court, with  allegations that on their face neither pleaded or allowed on obvious inference of damages over $75,000, then dare the defendant to try to remove to federal court.  Maybe the delay to trial is much greater in NY County than SDNY, a crucial consideration for a client of that age.<br />
Although there are no doubt many distinguished lawyers among the members of the Yale Club, I assume the matter will be tendered to the insurance carrier, which will put off settlement until the eve of trial. (Room for reform there.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian P.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good comments by both Bob and Ted here, but I must take issue with Bob&#039;s statement that the injuries must have resulted from the fault of either Judge Bork or the Yale Club&#039;s fault.  I think that in the mind of the general public, res ipsa loquitur is the standard, rather than the exception, and admittedly I do not know the law of the jurisdiction; but I&#039;m not sure what it is about a slip and fall from a dais that should invoke the doctrine.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments by both Bob and Ted here, but I must take issue with Bob&#8217;s statement that the injuries must have resulted from the fault of either Judge Bork or the Yale Club&#8217;s fault.  I think that in the mind of the general public, res ipsa loquitur is the standard, rather than the exception, and admittedly I do not know the law of the jurisdiction; but I&#8217;m not sure what it is about a slip and fall from a dais that should invoke the doctrine.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7642</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7642</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brian King&#039;s statement is absolutely false.  A complaint can make allegations that demonstrate a &quot;far-fetched legal theory.&quot;  If Bork had asked for a billion dollars in damages, we could be confident that that portion of the complaint was meritless.

I disagree with the position Judge Bork took on behalf of Netscape, and believe that the Judge Bork of thirty years ago would have acerbically disagreed as well.  But attorneys are entitled to represent clients they disagree with and expected to take positions they disagree with, and there is no reason to hold Judge Bork to a higher standard.  And regardless, Judge Bork&#039;s position in the Microsoft case isn&#039;t any more correct or incorrect if his motives for taking that position were pure or impure, sincere or cynical.  Thus, my 10:43 PM comment gratuitously and unnecessarily, and quite possibly falsely, impugned Judge Bork&#039;s motive for representing Netscape, and for this I apologize.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian King&#8217;s statement is absolutely false.  A complaint can make allegations that demonstrate a &#8220;far-fetched legal theory.&#8221;  If Bork had asked for a billion dollars in damages, we could be confident that that portion of the complaint was meritless.</p>
<p>I disagree with the position Judge Bork took on behalf of Netscape, and believe that the Judge Bork of thirty years ago would have acerbically disagreed as well.  But attorneys are entitled to represent clients they disagree with and expected to take positions they disagree with, and there is no reason to hold Judge Bork to a higher standard.  And regardless, Judge Bork&#8217;s position in the Microsoft case isn&#8217;t any more correct or incorrect if his motives for taking that position were pure or impure, sincere or cynical.  Thus, my 10:43 PM comment gratuitously and unnecessarily, and quite possibly falsely, impugned Judge Bork&#8217;s motive for representing Netscape, and for this I apologize.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian King		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7641</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian King]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7641</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Making judgments about the merits of a personal injury case based on the Complaint is akin to Bill Frith &quot;diagnosing&quot; Terri Schaivo via video-tape.  These things are inherently fact sensitive.  The Complaint, no matter how detailed, is simply not going to convey anything more than a rough idea of the merits, of lack, of any particular PI case.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making judgments about the merits of a personal injury case based on the Complaint is akin to Bill Frith &#8220;diagnosing&#8221; Terri Schaivo via video-tape.  These things are inherently fact sensitive.  The Complaint, no matter how detailed, is simply not going to convey anything more than a rough idea of the merits, of lack, of any particular PI case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Beldar		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7640</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beldar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7640</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Where I practice (Houston), a name partner in a major law firm would be in hot water for including a claim for attorneys&#039; fees that is obviously, unequivocally not recoverable based on the cause of action pleaded.  Even if that was boilerplate from some other sort of complaint that didn&#039;t get deleted as part of a cut-and-paste, that&#039;s awfully sloppy — to the point that in Texas, anyway, it would be viewed as an indication that the practitioner lacked much personal injury law experience.

This may be one of the rare cases in which a well-heeled or influential personal injury plaintiff choses to hire an attorney on something other than a contingent fee basis. Perhaps Judge Bork&#039;s counsel is indeed representing him for free; or perhaps Judge Bork can afford to pay by the hour and has made a conscious decision that the value of his case and the likely amount of legal work necessary to realize that value make it more advantageous to him not to give up as much of his claim on a contingent basis as is typically charged by lawyers who regularly work on a contingent fee basis.

It strikes me as inconceivable, given the identity of the parties, the nature of his injuries, and the straightforward nature of his case, that no competent contingent fee lawyer would at least offer to take his case. In other words, I think it almost certain that that (fairly traditional and common) type of fee arrangement was available to him.

It&#039;s interesting to me that he invoked diversity jurisdiction to file in federal court.  Is Judge Bork the classic out-of-state plaintiff who fears that the hometown Yale Club would have an advantage in the New York state courts?  Maybe so; I just don&#039;t know how &quot;clubby&quot; (pun intended and inevitable) the New York state courts are compared to the federal district courts who sit in New York these days.  It sort of smacks of showboating to me, though, and I would not want to be on the receiving end of the inevitable semi-hostile stare from a federal district judge asking, &quot;&lt;i&gt;Why&lt;/i&gt; is it exactly that you need to be in &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; court?&quot;  (That is to say, the hometown courts would need to be pretty damned clubby indeed before I&#039;d have filed this in federal court, just as a tactical preference.)

Although I don&#039;t know the particular details of New York state law on standards of care, I am less troubled that Ted Frank about the request for punitive damages.  If it&#039;s a relatively straightforward &quot;recklessness&quot; standard, then I don&#039;t have a problem with including the allegation, at least as far as meeting Fed. R. Civ. P. 11 requirements (in contrast to the attorneys&#039; fee claim).  Ted&#039;s point may be that it&#039;s just a  philosophical incongruity, rather than a Rule 11-type problem.  Even then, I&#039;m less struck than he may be.    Including it in the original complaint doesn&#039;t necessarily mean it will be seriously argued throughout the litigation.  And how silly or serious it looks may very well depend on how the state of mind evidence develops, e.g., during depositions of the decision-makers from the Yale Club who had responsibility for the design of the dais arrangement.  Maybe Ted would argue that in a close case, Judge Bork&#039;s historical philosophy should incline him and his lawyers to leave it out of an original pleading and seek leave to amend to add a punitive damages claim later if that evidence does indeed firm up.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where I practice (Houston), a name partner in a major law firm would be in hot water for including a claim for attorneys&#8217; fees that is obviously, unequivocally not recoverable based on the cause of action pleaded.  Even if that was boilerplate from some other sort of complaint that didn&#8217;t get deleted as part of a cut-and-paste, that&#8217;s awfully sloppy — to the point that in Texas, anyway, it would be viewed as an indication that the practitioner lacked much personal injury law experience.</p>
<p>This may be one of the rare cases in which a well-heeled or influential personal injury plaintiff choses to hire an attorney on something other than a contingent fee basis. Perhaps Judge Bork&#8217;s counsel is indeed representing him for free; or perhaps Judge Bork can afford to pay by the hour and has made a conscious decision that the value of his case and the likely amount of legal work necessary to realize that value make it more advantageous to him not to give up as much of his claim on a contingent basis as is typically charged by lawyers who regularly work on a contingent fee basis.</p>
<p>It strikes me as inconceivable, given the identity of the parties, the nature of his injuries, and the straightforward nature of his case, that no competent contingent fee lawyer would at least offer to take his case. In other words, I think it almost certain that that (fairly traditional and common) type of fee arrangement was available to him.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to me that he invoked diversity jurisdiction to file in federal court.  Is Judge Bork the classic out-of-state plaintiff who fears that the hometown Yale Club would have an advantage in the New York state courts?  Maybe so; I just don&#8217;t know how &#8220;clubby&#8221; (pun intended and inevitable) the New York state courts are compared to the federal district courts who sit in New York these days.  It sort of smacks of showboating to me, though, and I would not want to be on the receiving end of the inevitable semi-hostile stare from a federal district judge asking, &#8220;<i>Why</i> is it exactly that you need to be in <i>my</i> court?&#8221;  (That is to say, the hometown courts would need to be pretty damned clubby indeed before I&#8217;d have filed this in federal court, just as a tactical preference.)</p>
<p>Although I don&#8217;t know the particular details of New York state law on standards of care, I am less troubled that Ted Frank about the request for punitive damages.  If it&#8217;s a relatively straightforward &#8220;recklessness&#8221; standard, then I don&#8217;t have a problem with including the allegation, at least as far as meeting Fed. R. Civ. P. 11 requirements (in contrast to the attorneys&#8217; fee claim).  Ted&#8217;s point may be that it&#8217;s just a  philosophical incongruity, rather than a Rule 11-type problem.  Even then, I&#8217;m less struck than he may be.    Including it in the original complaint doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean it will be seriously argued throughout the litigation.  And how silly or serious it looks may very well depend on how the state of mind evidence develops, e.g., during depositions of the decision-makers from the Yale Club who had responsibility for the design of the dais arrangement.  Maybe Ted would argue that in a close case, Judge Bork&#8217;s historical philosophy should incline him and his lawyers to leave it out of an original pleading and seek leave to amend to add a punitive damages claim later if that evidence does indeed firm up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7639</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7639</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why didn&#039;t somebody lend a hand to the judge. That  often is done when older folks are negotiating steps. Justice Douglas climbed mountains in his late sixties, but Judge Bork is no Justice Douglas.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why didn&#8217;t somebody lend a hand to the judge. That  often is done when older folks are negotiating steps. Justice Douglas climbed mountains in his late sixties, but Judge Bork is no Justice Douglas.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric @ New York Personal Injury Law Blog		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7638</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric @ New York Personal Injury Law Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7638</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; Bottomline: this is a complaint about real injuries(not phony or frivolous)&lt;/i&gt;

Well, the part about punitive damages might be frivolous, and the parts about pre-judgment interest and attorneys fees certainly are. There is no basis for that in New York law.

That is probably just sloppiness, but the Complaint -- with multiple allegations in each paragraph, a failure to explicitly allege ownership and control of the prremises by the Yale Club and a second cause of action for recklessness -- was clearly not drafted by someone with PI experience.  This stuff isn&#039;t fatal given the liberal pleading rules, but a former SCOTUS nominee is not just any litigant, and it should have been done by someone who has done this many times before.

--ET
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Bottomline: this is a complaint about real injuries(not phony or frivolous)</i></p>
<p>Well, the part about punitive damages might be frivolous, and the parts about pre-judgment interest and attorneys fees certainly are. There is no basis for that in New York law.</p>
<p>That is probably just sloppiness, but the Complaint &#8212; with multiple allegations in each paragraph, a failure to explicitly allege ownership and control of the prremises by the Yale Club and a second cause of action for recklessness &#8212; was clearly not drafted by someone with PI experience.  This stuff isn&#8217;t fatal given the liberal pleading rules, but a former SCOTUS nominee is not just any litigant, and it should have been done by someone who has done this many times before.</p>
<p>&#8211;ET</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert H. Bork, Jr.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/bork-sues-the-yale-club/comment-page-1/#comment-7637</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert H. Bork, Jr.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4983#comment-7637</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, btw, Microsoft tried to hire my father, too.  That&#039;s not something that is widely known.  He took the side of the party he believed was correct.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, btw, Microsoft tried to hire my father, too.  That&#8217;s not something that is widely known.  He took the side of the party he believed was correct.</p>
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