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	<title>
	Comments on: The rule of law: Why is predictability important?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:17:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Joe Bingham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Bingham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Re: TF&#039;s comment at TDF.&lt;/b&gt;

Zing!

&lt;b&gt;Re: Ubu&#039;s comment here.&lt;/b&gt;

&quot;...with the goal of immunizing organizations from law suits.&quot; Gniz. You assume legal uncertainty hurts only organizations. It&#039;s true that they&#039;re more &lt;i&gt;often&lt;/i&gt; victims (deeper pockets are at greater risk), but they&#039;re not the exclusive victims. This is probably your first time at Overlawyered; come back and keep up so you can see what I mean.

Of course, even of corporations were the only victims of legal uncertainty, corporations, after all, are owned by people, are run by people, employ people, and serve people. Using the word &quot;organizations&quot; may hide, but does not &lt;i&gt;change&lt;/i&gt; the fact that institutionalized lawlessness hurts &lt;i&gt;people&lt;/i&gt;.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Re: TF&#8217;s comment at TDF.</b></p>
<p>Zing!</p>
<p><b>Re: Ubu&#8217;s comment here.</b></p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;with the goal of immunizing organizations from law suits.&#8221; Gniz. You assume legal uncertainty hurts only organizations. It&#8217;s true that they&#8217;re more <i>often</i> victims (deeper pockets are at greater risk), but they&#8217;re not the exclusive victims. This is probably your first time at Overlawyered; come back and keep up so you can see what I mean.</p>
<p>Of course, even of corporations were the only victims of legal uncertainty, corporations, after all, are owned by people, are run by people, employ people, and serve people. Using the word &#8220;organizations&#8221; may hide, but does not <i>change</i> the fact that institutionalized lawlessness hurts <i>people</i>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Nordberg,

If the rule was &quot;anything goes&quot;, then Daubert would seem to add the cost of separtly testing the scientific theory of a case. But that testing was being done, in theory and at some cost, by incompetent jurors.

To the extent that Daubert adds zeros to payments from junk science cases, the expected take by Plaintifs is reduced. I see that as social benefit, not a social cost.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Nordberg,</p>
<p>If the rule was &#8220;anything goes&#8221;, then Daubert would seem to add the cost of separtly testing the scientific theory of a case. But that testing was being done, in theory and at some cost, by incompetent jurors.</p>
<p>To the extent that Daubert adds zeros to payments from junk science cases, the expected take by Plaintifs is reduced. I see that as social benefit, not a social cost.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mahlon		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mahlon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ubu - You obviously can&#039;t grasp the fact that the lack or predictability makes the whole world a gray area.

I&#039;m a Plaintiff&#039;s lawyer and the lack of predictability can make it MORE difficult for my clients to get their day in Court.  The attitude that has infected the entire judicial system (the law is a mere suggestion) also encourages defense lawyers to roll the dice with a trial.  Guess what?  This can hurt a consumer who just wants a quick reasonable resolution to his claim.  My opinion is that the lack or predictability actually hurts Plaintiffs as much as Defendants.

All this to say - you couldn&#039;t be more wrong.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ubu &#8211; You obviously can&#8217;t grasp the fact that the lack or predictability makes the whole world a gray area.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a Plaintiff&#8217;s lawyer and the lack of predictability can make it MORE difficult for my clients to get their day in Court.  The attitude that has infected the entire judicial system (the law is a mere suggestion) also encourages defense lawyers to roll the dice with a trial.  Guess what?  This can hurt a consumer who just wants a quick reasonable resolution to his claim.  My opinion is that the lack or predictability actually hurts Plaintiffs as much as Defendants.</p>
<p>All this to say &#8211; you couldn&#8217;t be more wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deoxy		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7574</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deoxy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7574</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Litigation is necessary only when there is a dispute as to the facts.&quot;

Congratulations, Ubu, you&#039;re a reformist!

Right now litigation is &quot;required&quot; whenever one party decides to file a lawsuit.

Facts?!?  Ha!  A good lawyer never lets those silly things get in the way!

You want proof of that?  Read a few of the entries from this site documenting ridiculous lawsuits.

The guys who used outdoor glue indoors and got burned when the water heater kicked on?  THEY WON.  The &quot;settled&quot; area of law there was that the LARGE PRINT WARNING on the can (which they admitted they read) told them not to use it indoors.

ALL areas of law are &quot;gray areas&quot; right now.  Find the right judge or jury, and you win, facts, equity, fairness, public policy, and efficiency be d---ed.

Heh - &quot;efficiency&quot; - yeah, that&#039;s a BIG part of our legal system right now, eh?  ROFLMAO.

&quot;Don&#039;t whine when the judge doesn&#039;t rule your way...its your own fault for not listening to your lawyer.&quot;

Really?  So, when I DO &quot;listen to [my] lawyer&quot; (and thee vast majority of other lawyers, for that matter), and I STILL lose (a well-documented phenomenon), whose fault is that?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Litigation is necessary only when there is a dispute as to the facts.&#8221;</p>
<p>Congratulations, Ubu, you&#8217;re a reformist!</p>
<p>Right now litigation is &#8220;required&#8221; whenever one party decides to file a lawsuit.</p>
<p>Facts?!?  Ha!  A good lawyer never lets those silly things get in the way!</p>
<p>You want proof of that?  Read a few of the entries from this site documenting ridiculous lawsuits.</p>
<p>The guys who used outdoor glue indoors and got burned when the water heater kicked on?  THEY WON.  The &#8220;settled&#8221; area of law there was that the LARGE PRINT WARNING on the can (which they admitted they read) told them not to use it indoors.</p>
<p>ALL areas of law are &#8220;gray areas&#8221; right now.  Find the right judge or jury, and you win, facts, equity, fairness, public policy, and efficiency be d&#8212;ed.</p>
<p>Heh &#8211; &#8220;efficiency&#8221; &#8211; yeah, that&#8217;s a BIG part of our legal system right now, eh?  ROFLMAO.</p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t whine when the judge doesn&#8217;t rule your way&#8230;its your own fault for not listening to your lawyer.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  So, when I DO &#8220;listen to [my] lawyer&#8221; (and thee vast majority of other lawyers, for that matter), and I STILL lose (a well-documented phenomenon), whose fault is that?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If Ubu wishes to respond to what I have to say, it would be helpful if he would respond to positions I actually take rather than fictitious characterizations thereof.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Ubu wishes to respond to what I have to say, it would be helpful if he would respond to positions I actually take rather than fictitious characterizations thereof.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Wilson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Wilson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Predictability is especially frustrated in the &quot;damned if you, damned if you don&#039;t&quot; scenarios that occur from time to time in the law.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Predictability is especially frustrated in the &#8220;damned if you, damned if you don&#8217;t&#8221; scenarios that occur from time to time in the law.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ubu Walker		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7571</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ubu Walker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7571</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think anyone disputes that predictability is an important component of justice.

However, predictability is not the only component of justice.  There is fairness, equity, public policy and efficiency, just to name a few.

Unfortunately, what the author of this blog is describing as &quot;predictability&quot; is not the application of the law to a specific set of facts which yields a consistent and repeatable result.

It is a desire to have laws which yield only one possible outcome based on any set of facts.

Essentially, the author wants a cookie-cutter application of the law to fit all situations with the goal of immunizing organizations from law suits, with no regard to the facts of the case, nuance, fairness, or other well established principles of law and equity.

Most areas of the law are well settled.  Litigation is necessary only when there is a dispute as to the facts.  In areas where the law is unclear or unsettled, there is, of course, great uncertainty.  It is one of the risks of doing business in the gray area of the law.

If you don&#039;t want to run the risk of being sued, don&#039;t operate in the gray areas...but don&#039;t expect to profit as greatly either.  Lawyers can only tell you what is legal, what is not legal, and what isn&#039;t clear.  If you decide to play in the &quot;not clear&quot; area....you must accept the risks.  Don&#039;t whine when the judge doesn&#039;t rule your way...its your own fault for not listening to your lawyer.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone disputes that predictability is an important component of justice.</p>
<p>However, predictability is not the only component of justice.  There is fairness, equity, public policy and efficiency, just to name a few.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, what the author of this blog is describing as &#8220;predictability&#8221; is not the application of the law to a specific set of facts which yields a consistent and repeatable result.</p>
<p>It is a desire to have laws which yield only one possible outcome based on any set of facts.</p>
<p>Essentially, the author wants a cookie-cutter application of the law to fit all situations with the goal of immunizing organizations from law suits, with no regard to the facts of the case, nuance, fairness, or other well established principles of law and equity.</p>
<p>Most areas of the law are well settled.  Litigation is necessary only when there is a dispute as to the facts.  In areas where the law is unclear or unsettled, there is, of course, great uncertainty.  It is one of the risks of doing business in the gray area of the law.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to run the risk of being sued, don&#8217;t operate in the gray areas&#8230;but don&#8217;t expect to profit as greatly either.  Lawyers can only tell you what is legal, what is not legal, and what isn&#8217;t clear.  If you decide to play in the &#8220;not clear&#8221; area&#8230;.you must accept the risks.  Don&#8217;t whine when the judge doesn&#8217;t rule your way&#8230;its your own fault for not listening to your lawyer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: E-Bell		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E-Bell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[James, he doesn&#039;t want to drive more traffic to that site.  Seriously, no one seems to read it unless Overlawyered links to it.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, he doesn&#8217;t want to drive more traffic to that site.  Seriously, no one seems to read it unless Overlawyered links to it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter Nordberg		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Nordberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Unpredictability, in the sense of utter randomness of outcome, is one thing.  Bounded uncertainty about outcomes is another.  In many areas of the law, bounded uncertainty may be a desirable structural component, because it has appropriate incentivizing effects.  I&#039;ve long believed, for example, that one problem with Daubert is that it makes predictions about admissibility unduly difficult.  That tends to escalate transaction costs,  promote deferral of settlement, and foster inconsistency of outcome as between similarly situated litigants.  But I recognize the force of contrary arguments.  Daubert doesn&#039;t leave litigants absolutely bereft of guidance, and what room it leaves for uncertainty may push litigants to improve the reliability of their evidence, whereas brighter lines might incentivize people to settle for the barest reliability minimum.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unpredictability, in the sense of utter randomness of outcome, is one thing.  Bounded uncertainty about outcomes is another.  In many areas of the law, bounded uncertainty may be a desirable structural component, because it has appropriate incentivizing effects.  I&#8217;ve long believed, for example, that one problem with Daubert is that it makes predictions about admissibility unduly difficult.  That tends to escalate transaction costs,  promote deferral of settlement, and foster inconsistency of outcome as between similarly situated litigants.  But I recognize the force of contrary arguments.  Daubert doesn&#8217;t leave litigants absolutely bereft of guidance, and what room it leaves for uncertainty may push litigants to improve the reliability of their evidence, whereas brighter lines might incentivize people to settle for the barest reliability minimum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Griffin3		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/06/the-rule-of-law-why-is-predictability-important/comment-page-1/#comment-7568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Griffin3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=4976#comment-7568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the idea is not to give unnecessary hits to the crazy folks, James.  Anyone is free to look &#039;em up, by why bother linking to something that will only interest the trolls?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea is not to give unnecessary hits to the crazy folks, James.  Anyone is free to look &#8217;em up, by why bother linking to something that will only interest the trolls?</p>
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