Comments on: Fugitives responsible for risks of pursuit, cont’d

By: David Schwartz

David Schwartz — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:06:05 +0000

Lots of people are jumping to conclusions here. We don’t know the cause of the helicopter crash yet.

That there’s inherent risk to flying in a helicopter is clear. That news helicopter’s cover high speed chases is clear. This inherent risk was, in this case, caused by the fleeing felon. If the accident was caused by that inherent risk, then the fleeing felon is response. This is as sure as that an arsonist is responsible for the death of a fireman due to the inherent risk of fighting the fire he caused.

However, that a highly-experienced news helicopter pilot would fly negligently is not foreseeable. Such negligence would also be an intervening cause. There is no reason to hold a felon responsible for a death caused by someone else’s unforeseeable negligence.

So I’m waiting for the NTSB report.

By: Enrique

Enrique — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:04:49 +0000

I’m sure if GTL saw a payday for himself in it, he’d be willing to follow whatever twists and perversions of logic anyone here could dream up.

By: Melvin

Melvin — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:34:43 +0000

Hang on here a sec . . . by G.T.L.’s logic, maybe the families of the firefighters who died in a traffic accident a few years back, coming to help fight the Hayman fire in Colorado . . . could sue in civil court the Sierra Club and all the environmental groups for not allowing thinning of the forests, which would have cut down the chance of fire, thereby not requiring the firefighters to get here in the first place!. How about it, GTL???

By: Melvin

Melvin — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:29:30 +0000

Good grief, Greedy Trial Lawyer: Are you saying that, if this had been a building on fire and the ‘copters crashed, the families of those killed should sue the TV stations &/or the building’s owners??? That is nuts.
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Maybe what should happen is, that a TV news chopper (and yes, maybe even radio traffic choppers) should be required to have a pilot whose sole job is to fly the chopper–not have combined pilot/reporters or pilot/camera operators.

By: Jonathan Bailey

Jonathan Bailey — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:08:55 +0000

Since posting my comment this morning I've actually gotten around to reading the newpaper. It was a total of 6 helos. Five news, one police. I've cross-posted at my blog: http://takemetoyourlizard.blogspot.com

By: Timothy Watson

Timothy Watson — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:49:06 +0000

I think there was five helicopters in the air around the scene from what I heard, four news helicopters and one police helicopter. Nothing like a Charlie-Foxtrot.

By: Walter Olson

Walter Olson — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:03:22 +0000

For trivia buffs, the Andrew Thomas who is district attorney for Maricopa County is the same person as the Andrew Peyton Thomas toward whom I was uncharitable in this Reason piece exactly ten years ago.

By: Greedy Trial Lawyer

Greedy Trial Lawyer — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:45:59 +0000

The police chief is not raising the question of importance to the families of the deceased. Among those potentially in the chain of causation, who would likely have insurance or assets worth pursuing? Personally, I would start with the news executives and companies who feel it is necessary to chase high speed pursuits with video cameras. I believe the instructions regarding camera angles and proximity would be interesting reading.

By: pl

pl — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:14:41 +0000

It is ridiculous to hold the man fleeing police responsible for some cowboy pilot’s negligence, but the same thing happened in Cali in 1991 (People v. Acosta).

By: Jonathan Bailey

Jonathan Bailey — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:13:00 +0000

I live in Phoenix and I hold a commercial pilot’s (fixed wing) license. I heard about yesterday’s tragedy shortly after it happened. I also heard later on the radio that the county attorney, Andrew Thomas, was contemplating trying to hold the fleeing suspect responsible for the deaths of the two helicopter crews.

I agree with John Burgess that this is stretching the chain of culpability too far. The helicopter pilots failed in one of the most basic responsibilties pilot has under Visual Flight Rules. That is to see, be seen by and avoid other aircraft and it is the Pilot-In-Command that is completely and solely responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft. There were at least three helicopters, the accident helicopters; Chanel 15 and 3, as well as Fox 10’s right behind them. They were all at least partially preoccupied with tracking a vehicle on the ground that was making random turns. It would be all too easy to lose track of each other in that situation and in such close proximity the result is sadly predictable.

This was an entirely preventable tragedy. The crews took a lot of risks for the sake of a few more minutes of car chase footage but it was their choice to take those risks. Trying to shift the blame to the car chase suspect is not going to change that.