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	Comments on: Behind those &#8220;unfair arbitration&#8221; numbers	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:09:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: New consumer arbitration study		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-42515</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New consumer arbitration study]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-42515</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] that suggests it&#8217;s not the bogeyman trial lawyers have been painting it as (we&#8217;ve touched on the topic before). I&#8217;ve got a summary excerpt and a few more links over at Point of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] that suggests it&#8217;s not the bogeyman trial lawyers have been painting it as (we&#8217;ve touched on the topic before). I&#8217;ve got a summary excerpt and a few more links over at Point of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Shaprshooter		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shaprshooter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How about someone Lawyer type) answer Bumper&#039;s points.

For your average consumer, even arbitration is surrealistic and overly expensive.

By that measure, all the frivilous lawsuits against Fortune 500 companies are justified in that they settle out of court 90% of the time.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about someone Lawyer type) answer Bumper&#8217;s points.</p>
<p>For your average consumer, even arbitration is surrealistic and overly expensive.</p>
<p>By that measure, all the frivilous lawsuits against Fortune 500 companies are justified in that they settle out of court 90% of the time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wheres_My_Summons		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9311</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wheres_My_Summons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9311</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK you flap about &quot;default cases&quot; but yet you don&#039;t research how they &quot;serve&quot; notice to the defendants.

Kinda hard to show up if you&#039;re unaware the case even exists. Media sensationalism indeed.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK you flap about &#8220;default cases&#8221; but yet you don&#8217;t research how they &#8220;serve&#8221; notice to the defendants.</p>
<p>Kinda hard to show up if you&#8217;re unaware the case even exists. Media sensationalism indeed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ColoComment		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ColoComment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Because those journalists were falling into a hole skillfully dug for them by Public Citizen.&quot;

...and also because those journalists, like so many self-described journalists working in today&#039;s reporting environment, either don&#039;t have the training, education, intelligence, or curiosity, to perform any independent investigation of their subject, or they just don&#039;t care enough about accuracy to do so.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Because those journalists were falling into a hole skillfully dug for them by Public Citizen.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;and also because those journalists, like so many self-described journalists working in today&#8217;s reporting environment, either don&#8217;t have the training, education, intelligence, or curiosity, to perform any independent investigation of their subject, or they just don&#8217;t care enough about accuracy to do so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Attorney		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hmmm...

Calling them &quot;Godless Bloodsuckers&quot; is always a sure bet that you&#039;re about to get some reliable information from serious people. Ditto for the WEST VIRGINIA judge who weighs in... ahem. But alright, check out the site. &quot;Consumerist,&quot; it&#039;s called? Would that be because they protect consumer choice and keep prices down?

Again, hmmm.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;</p>
<p>Calling them &#8220;Godless Bloodsuckers&#8221; is always a sure bet that you&#8217;re about to get some reliable information from serious people. Ditto for the WEST VIRGINIA judge who weighs in&#8230; ahem. But alright, check out the site. &#8220;Consumerist,&#8221; it&#8217;s called? Would that be because they protect consumer choice and keep prices down?</p>
<p>Again, hmmm.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeff		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9308</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9308</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anonymous Attorney:

The Consumerist has many bad &lt;a href=&quot;http://consumerist.com/consumer/mandatory-binding-arbitration/national-arbitration-forum-decides-61-year-identity-theft-victim-owes-46000-310984.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;arbitration&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://consumerist.com/consumer/confessions/arbitration-firms-are-godless-bloodsuckers-306136.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;articles&lt;/a&gt;  their website.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous Attorney:</p>
<p>The Consumerist has many bad <a href="http://consumerist.com/consumer/mandatory-binding-arbitration/national-arbitration-forum-decides-61-year-identity-theft-victim-owes-46000-310984.php" rel="nofollow">arbitration</a> <a href="http://consumerist.com/consumer/confessions/arbitration-firms-are-godless-bloodsuckers-306136.php" rel="nofollow">articles</a>  their website.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Attorney		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9307</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9307</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And could Paul Wenske, Phuong Cat Le, Shelley or anyone from Public Citizen give us an EXAMPLE of a case that should have been won by a credit card holder, but wasn&#039;t?

Didn&#039;t think so.

A 98 percent conviction rate would be too low if 99 percent of those charged were in fact guilty.

I suspect this isn&#039;t an overly factually complex situation. You owe the money or you don&#039;t. I&#039;m sure most tagged with owing, owe. In my experience with disputed charges, credit card companies are pretty good about dealing with those quickly and on good terms for the cardholder.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And could Paul Wenske, Phuong Cat Le, Shelley or anyone from Public Citizen give us an EXAMPLE of a case that should have been won by a credit card holder, but wasn&#8217;t?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>A 98 percent conviction rate would be too low if 99 percent of those charged were in fact guilty.</p>
<p>I suspect this isn&#8217;t an overly factually complex situation. You owe the money or you don&#8217;t. I&#8217;m sure most tagged with owing, owe. In my experience with disputed charges, credit card companies are pretty good about dealing with those quickly and on good terms for the cardholder.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No, Shelley, because all those default judgments are far cheaper to obtain in arbitration than in litigation.  But without mandatory arbitration, firms will not be able to obtain the consent to bring those actions, and consumers will not get the benefit of cheaper costs.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Shelley, because all those default judgments are far cheaper to obtain in arbitration than in litigation.  But without mandatory arbitration, firms will not be able to obtain the consent to bring those actions, and consumers will not get the benefit of cheaper costs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bumper		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bumper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So then the question becomes, of the 95% that are default cases how many of those are defaulted because cardholder knew they didn&#039;t have a case and how many were defaulted because they were didn&#039;t think they by themselves had a chance against the credit card companies lawyers and the amount was too small to make hiring a lawyer (if you could even find a lawyer who would take such a small case) or were just too unsophisticated to be able to follow the process to conclusion?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So then the question becomes, of the 95% that are default cases how many of those are defaulted because cardholder knew they didn&#8217;t have a case and how many were defaulted because they were didn&#8217;t think they by themselves had a chance against the credit card companies lawyers and the amount was too small to make hiring a lawyer (if you could even find a lawyer who would take such a small case) or were just too unsophisticated to be able to follow the process to conclusion?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Barney		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2007/10/behind-those-unfair-arbitration-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-9304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Barney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5464#comment-9304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do believe the media&#039;s accounts in this instance are biased.  Arbitration is, often, a fair way to resolve disputes: quicker, cheaper and less complex than full-blown litigation.  Where I live, personal injury civil cases have mandatory arbitration for values admitted less than $50,000.

Perhaps oddly, those forums are generally plaintiff-friendly.  Attorneys are deciding cases (as judge and jury) for other attorneys and their clients.  The judgments often come in more generously than those of juries, who (at least in the venue in which I live) are generally skeptical of plaintiffs asking for money.

If the defendant believes the judgment is unjust they can appeal (“trial de novo”) but would owe the plaintiff’s increased attorney fees if they do not improve their position at jury trial.  (The same goes for the plaintiff if they appeal and don’t improve their position).

So, the media’s insistence to portray arbitrators as shills for the big, evil credit card companies fall on deaf ears, at least for me.  This is pointed out in Olson’s post—that many of the (essentially) default judgments against consumers in arbitration are not because the companies are leveraging their resources against the consumer, but only that they simply failed to respond to the arbitration proceedings and defaulted in the action.  And, the remainder is simply decided on their merits.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe the media&#8217;s accounts in this instance are biased.  Arbitration is, often, a fair way to resolve disputes: quicker, cheaper and less complex than full-blown litigation.  Where I live, personal injury civil cases have mandatory arbitration for values admitted less than $50,000.</p>
<p>Perhaps oddly, those forums are generally plaintiff-friendly.  Attorneys are deciding cases (as judge and jury) for other attorneys and their clients.  The judgments often come in more generously than those of juries, who (at least in the venue in which I live) are generally skeptical of plaintiffs asking for money.</p>
<p>If the defendant believes the judgment is unjust they can appeal (“trial de novo”) but would owe the plaintiff’s increased attorney fees if they do not improve their position at jury trial.  (The same goes for the plaintiff if they appeal and don’t improve their position).</p>
<p>So, the media’s insistence to portray arbitrators as shills for the big, evil credit card companies fall on deaf ears, at least for me.  This is pointed out in Olson’s post—that many of the (essentially) default judgments against consumers in arbitration are not because the companies are leveraging their resources against the consumer, but only that they simply failed to respond to the arbitration proceedings and defaulted in the action.  And, the remainder is simply decided on their merits.</p>
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