Comments on: Butter knife expulsion

By: Deoxy

Deoxy — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:46:56 +0000

“What is astounding is that the fact that the outcomes are absurd doesn’t seem to register with the adminstrators (or originators) of the policies.”

Oh many of thm do acknowledge that the rsult is absurd… but when those absurd results are shielding them from multi-million dollar lawsuits (which many of them have been around long enough to have seen, before ZT became the policy), you learn to live with them.

That is, the results only look absurd when you don’t consider the longer-term results (big lawsuits).

By: robin

robin — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:27:44 +0000

These policies and their outcomes are the finest example of application of reductio ad absurdum ever. What is astounding is that the fact that the outcomes are absurd doesn’t seem to register with the adminstrators (or originators) of the policies.

Mr Rohan, I don’t watch “KotH” much, are you sure that isn’t a quote from a real school district official?

By: John Rohan

John Rohan — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:31:10 +0000

In an episode of “King of the Hill”, Bobby brought a putty knife to his carpentry class in high school, and was expelled. When Hank Hill went to the principal to explain, the principal said:
“I’m sorry Mr. Hill, but if we showed any tolerance, then we couldn’t call it zero-tolerance.”

By: Bill Poser

Bill Poser — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:56:36 +0000

I agree with Richard N. A zero-tolerance policy is an announcement that “I am a really stupid person incapable of reasoning and making distinctions. Kick me.”

If zero-tolerance policies are needed to provide due process, why isn’t all liability strict liability?

By: Todd Rogers

Todd Rogers — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:44:08 +0000

A little girl with a shank…too bad for her family that she wasn’t being treated for a mental disorder: she might have had grounds to sue. Nope, not this time.

By: Deoxy

Deoxy — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:10:24 +0000

OBQ,

The quality at public schools dropped long before that. There was a time (not too long ago, sadly) when functionally illiterate students were managing to get normal high school diplomas in some public schools.

This was just another blow to a system that was already ridiculously bad.

By: OBQuiet

OBQuiet — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:28:54 +0000

My uninformed knowledge of the issue is that ZT policies are the result of the courts ruling that schools needed to provide due process to students. Since this usually resulted in lawsuits over whether the process was “due” enough, they adopted the simple rule that all violations were the same and punished the same.

While other societal changes did coincide with this new emphasis on ‘justice’, it seems like the quality of education at public schools really started dropping when the courts made this call.

By: Alton

Alton — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:06:35 +0000

Zero tolerance policies appear to involve zero intelligence as Richard points out, but as long as the school can get sued for every conceivable mishap that could potentially involve a butterknife, and lawyers are allowed to second guess educators as to what should, and should not be allowed on campus, regardless of whether or not educators had a Policy, or negligently maintained a deficient Policy, then the zero tolerance policies will continue to act at the very least, as a minimum firewall to liability.

By: Bob Montgomery

Bob Montgomery — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:43:18 +0000

Relatedly...

A second-grader's drawing of a stick figure shooting a gun earned him a one-day school suspension. Kyle Walker, 7, was suspended last week for violating Dennis Township Primary School's zero-tolerance policy on guns

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303796,00.html

By: Dave D

Dave D — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:02:21 +0000

Isn’t this the same Goose Creek High School that recently settled a suit over a warrantless search of the entire student body using drug dogs and armed cops?