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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;Son seeks estate of mother he killed&#8221;	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:08:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: federalist		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10128</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[federalist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10128</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a hardcore believer in reading statutes the way they were written, and I don&#039;t take to judges rewriting statutes on whims.  However, I also believe that there are general legal principles that apply, and one of those has to be that, at the end of the day, courts are simply not going to allow a person to profit by butchering a person to death.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a hardcore believer in reading statutes the way they were written, and I don&#8217;t take to judges rewriting statutes on whims.  However, I also believe that there are general legal principles that apply, and one of those has to be that, at the end of the day, courts are simply not going to allow a person to profit by butchering a person to death.</p>
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		<title>
		By: VMS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VMS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Blame the lawmakers!

In Riggs v Palmer, 115 NY 506 (1889) New York&#039;s highest court, the Court of Appeals, held that equity trumps the literal meaning of the statute of wills, and prevents a murderer from benefiting from his crime. The murderer, Elmer Palmer was thus enjoined from inheriting the sizable estate left to him by his grandfather, Frances Palmer, the murder victim. Others have read Riggs for the general equitable principle that one cannot profit from his own wrong.

The Court, quoting Aristotle, stated that &quot;[e]quity is a correction of the law where it is defective owing to its universitality.&quot;

New York, unlike most jurisdictions did not have a statute specifically addressing the rules disinheriting the homicidal heir. Now come the geniuses in the NY Legislature to the rescue by enacting another law under the umbrella of the &quot;Full Employment for Lawyers Act.&quot; They passed a law [NY EPTL 4-1.6] stating that a person convicted of first or second degree murder cannot inherit money in a joint bank account that was not contributed by him/her.

This opens a can of worms and seems to remove the equitable component. What if, for instance,  a murderous heir by all indications plotted the killing, but ended up pleading to manslaughter?

Does the statute by expressing only joint bank accounts, exclude all other instances (of which the legislature was obviously aware) where a murderous heir could inherit?

I did not research the specific situation presented by this Washington case, but with the facts as presented, if I were the judge, I would &quot;correct the law&quot; and enjoin the killer from inheriting any part of the estate, and leave the $800,000.00 won in the lawsuit against the municipality as part of the estate to be distributed as if the son predeceased the testator.

One of the main problems with many of the &quot;absurd&quot; cases that make it to Overlawyered, is that laws are enacted by those that don&#039;t know the rules, law is practiced by those that don&#039;t know the rules, judges don&#039;t know the rules, thus completing the viscous cycle where the rules themselves become fluid with differing viscosities depending on the area of law.

The Full employment for Lawyers Act, however will remain alive and well.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blame the lawmakers!</p>
<p>In Riggs v Palmer, 115 NY 506 (1889) New York&#8217;s highest court, the Court of Appeals, held that equity trumps the literal meaning of the statute of wills, and prevents a murderer from benefiting from his crime. The murderer, Elmer Palmer was thus enjoined from inheriting the sizable estate left to him by his grandfather, Frances Palmer, the murder victim. Others have read Riggs for the general equitable principle that one cannot profit from his own wrong.</p>
<p>The Court, quoting Aristotle, stated that &#8220;[e]quity is a correction of the law where it is defective owing to its universitality.&#8221;</p>
<p>New York, unlike most jurisdictions did not have a statute specifically addressing the rules disinheriting the homicidal heir. Now come the geniuses in the NY Legislature to the rescue by enacting another law under the umbrella of the &#8220;Full Employment for Lawyers Act.&#8221; They passed a law [NY EPTL 4-1.6] stating that a person convicted of first or second degree murder cannot inherit money in a joint bank account that was not contributed by him/her.</p>
<p>This opens a can of worms and seems to remove the equitable component. What if, for instance,  a murderous heir by all indications plotted the killing, but ended up pleading to manslaughter?</p>
<p>Does the statute by expressing only joint bank accounts, exclude all other instances (of which the legislature was obviously aware) where a murderous heir could inherit?</p>
<p>I did not research the specific situation presented by this Washington case, but with the facts as presented, if I were the judge, I would &#8220;correct the law&#8221; and enjoin the killer from inheriting any part of the estate, and leave the $800,000.00 won in the lawsuit against the municipality as part of the estate to be distributed as if the son predeceased the testator.</p>
<p>One of the main problems with many of the &#8220;absurd&#8221; cases that make it to Overlawyered, is that laws are enacted by those that don&#8217;t know the rules, law is practiced by those that don&#8217;t know the rules, judges don&#8217;t know the rules, thus completing the viscous cycle where the rules themselves become fluid with differing viscosities depending on the area of law.</p>
<p>The Full employment for Lawyers Act, however will remain alive and well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: wavemaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wavemaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is a standard principle of statutory interpretation that, where a statute is AMBIGUOUS, it must be read to &lt;i&gt;give meaning to&lt;/i&gt; (not ignore) every word (insofar as possible), and interpreted so as to avoid an &quot;absurd result.&quot;

But the statute first has to be ambiguous.

The statute in Washington, RCW 11.84.010, requires that the killing be both  &quot;willful and unlawful.&quot;

The Hoge Court&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&amp;filename=589326MAJ&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; ruled&lt;/a&gt; that, notwithstanding Hoge&#039;s acquittal, the killing was still &quot;unlawful,&quot; but remanded the case for further findings on the degree of mens rea required to find &quot;wilfullness.&quot; I think the decision makes sense in light of the less-than-perfect statutory language.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a standard principle of statutory interpretation that, where a statute is AMBIGUOUS, it must be read to <i>give meaning to</i> (not ignore) every word (insofar as possible), and interpreted so as to avoid an &#8220;absurd result.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the statute first has to be ambiguous.</p>
<p>The statute in Washington, RCW 11.84.010, requires that the killing be both  &#8220;willful and unlawful.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Hoge Court<a href="http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&#038;filename=589326MAJ" rel="nofollow"> ruled</a> that, notwithstanding Hoge&#8217;s acquittal, the killing was still &#8220;unlawful,&#8221; but remanded the case for further findings on the degree of mens rea required to find &#8220;wilfullness.&#8221; I think the decision makes sense in light of the less-than-perfect statutory language.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MF		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10125</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10125</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I also take issue with the concept that judge&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; (sic) &lt;i&gt;should ignore the language of statutes if the result would be &quot;absurd.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I couldn&#039;t agree more.  Ruling based on what a judge thinks the law &quot;should&quot; be is called &lt;b&gt;judicial activism&lt;/b&gt;.

If a law is unjust, the people must take steps to right the unjust law.  A judge&#039;s resposibility is to interpret the law, not decide what&#039;s fair.  The rule of law must be followed, even if it has unfortunate consequences.

It&#039;s no different than the example of where the police perform an unlawful search and seizure, and an obviously guilty party gets away with a crime due to inadmissable evidence.  Everyone knows the accused committed the crime, but all of the evidence that links the accused with the crime has to be omitted, and the accused walks.  A judge can&#039;t just say, &quot;Well, we all know he did it, and the police didn&#039;t mean to violate his rights and perform the illegal search, so we&#039;ll admit the evidence anyway.&quot;
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I also take issue with the concept that judge&#8217;s</i> (sic) <i>should ignore the language of statutes if the result would be &#8220;absurd.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  Ruling based on what a judge thinks the law &#8220;should&#8221; be is called <b>judicial activism</b>.</p>
<p>If a law is unjust, the people must take steps to right the unjust law.  A judge&#8217;s resposibility is to interpret the law, not decide what&#8217;s fair.  The rule of law must be followed, even if it has unfortunate consequences.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s no different than the example of where the police perform an unlawful search and seizure, and an obviously guilty party gets away with a crime due to inadmissable evidence.  Everyone knows the accused committed the crime, but all of the evidence that links the accused with the crime has to be omitted, and the accused walks.  A judge can&#8217;t just say, &#8220;Well, we all know he did it, and the police didn&#8217;t mean to violate his rights and perform the illegal search, so we&#8217;ll admit the evidence anyway.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: kat		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10124</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 14:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10124</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I also take issue with the concept that judge&#039;s should ignore the language of statutes if the result would be &quot;absurd.&quot;  While I recognize the appeal, I believe that greater legal clarity as to when liability may be assigned and when it may not is beneficial.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also take issue with the concept that judge&#8217;s should ignore the language of statutes if the result would be &#8220;absurd.&#8221;  While I recognize the appeal, I believe that greater legal clarity as to when liability may be assigned and when it may not is beneficial.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Collins		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10123</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Collins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10123</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that this is so cut and dried as federalist would like it to be.  The lawsuit is the kicker here.  A case can be made that the mental health clinic is responsible for the killings, otherwise the estate wouldn&#039;t have won.  Hoge has been &quot;found&quot; to be not responsible because of his mental illness.  If he isn&#039;t responsible for the killings then why shouldn&#039;t he have a claim in the estate?  An even stranger thing can happen here.  If Hoge loses his claim on the estate, he could probably sue King County for the lost money.

While I agree that Hoge shouldn&#039;t get anything, I&#039;ve heard of stranger things happening.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that this is so cut and dried as federalist would like it to be.  The lawsuit is the kicker here.  A case can be made that the mental health clinic is responsible for the killings, otherwise the estate wouldn&#8217;t have won.  Hoge has been &#8220;found&#8221; to be not responsible because of his mental illness.  If he isn&#8217;t responsible for the killings then why shouldn&#8217;t he have a claim in the estate?  An even stranger thing can happen here.  If Hoge loses his claim on the estate, he could probably sue King County for the lost money.</p>
<p>While I agree that Hoge shouldn&#8217;t get anything, I&#8217;ve heard of stranger things happening.</p>
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		<title>
		By: federalist		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/01/son-seeks-estate-of-mother-he-killed/comment-page-1/#comment-10122</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[federalist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5707#comment-10122</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This really ought to be an easy case, and one for which judges are uniquely positioned to do, namely deal with statutes of general applicability when they have absurd results.  Here, the fiction ought to be that we presume that when someone kills you, you would have changed the will to exclude them.  See how easy that is.  Plus, the lawyer is probably oversimplifying things.  A &quot;not guilty&quot; finding is not the equivalent of &quot;it was an accident&quot;.  Moreover, the estate is certainly not bound by the non guilty finding.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This really ought to be an easy case, and one for which judges are uniquely positioned to do, namely deal with statutes of general applicability when they have absurd results.  Here, the fiction ought to be that we presume that when someone kills you, you would have changed the will to exclude them.  See how easy that is.  Plus, the lawyer is probably oversimplifying things.  A &#8220;not guilty&#8221; finding is not the equivalent of &#8220;it was an accident&#8221;.  Moreover, the estate is certainly not bound by the non guilty finding.</p>
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