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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;38 lacrosse players sue Duke University&#8221;	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:35:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I recommend that the boys hold a press conference where they drop their litigation for the sake of the school and the community.&lt;/i&gt;

Loyalty is a two way street.  The school and community not only abandoned these players, they made their lives horrible for a year.

&lt;i&gt;They would be heroes, and they would be better able to get beyond the incident.&lt;/i&gt;

Heroes to who?  You do realize that many in the Duke community and the surrounding areas still feel that the players were in the wrong.  Some of the faculty in the &quot;gang of 88&quot; continue to make comments about the guilt of the players.  If you also remember, people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson made highly publicized appearances condemning the players.  At the same time, the city and University refused to follow the law and their own rules of conduct.  Sharpton and Jackson have not apologized for their conduct that inflamed the passions of the community.  Duke withheld evidence that would have exonerated the players but instead allowed them to be bullied, harassed and threatened by the students and faculty.

This is a case where the rooster has come home to roost.

The players owe the university and the community nothing.  There may have been a time when an extended hand from the community and the University could have prevented this, but not now.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I recommend that the boys hold a press conference where they drop their litigation for the sake of the school and the community.</i></p>
<p>Loyalty is a two way street.  The school and community not only abandoned these players, they made their lives horrible for a year.</p>
<p><i>They would be heroes, and they would be better able to get beyond the incident.</i></p>
<p>Heroes to who?  You do realize that many in the Duke community and the surrounding areas still feel that the players were in the wrong.  Some of the faculty in the &#8220;gang of 88&#8221; continue to make comments about the guilt of the players.  If you also remember, people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson made highly publicized appearances condemning the players.  At the same time, the city and University refused to follow the law and their own rules of conduct.  Sharpton and Jackson have not apologized for their conduct that inflamed the passions of the community.  Duke withheld evidence that would have exonerated the players but instead allowed them to be bullied, harassed and threatened by the students and faculty.</p>
<p>This is a case where the rooster has come home to roost.</p>
<p>The players owe the university and the community nothing.  There may have been a time when an extended hand from the community and the University could have prevented this, but not now.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10839</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10839</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I recommend that the boys hold a press conference where they drop their litigation for the sake of the school and the community. They would be heroes, and they would be better able to get beyond the incident.Taking money off the table would increase the creditability of their public comments.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend that the boys hold a press conference where they drop their litigation for the sake of the school and the community. They would be heroes, and they would be better able to get beyond the incident.Taking money off the table would increase the creditability of their public comments.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Melvin		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melvin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How about going after the group on campus who posted the players&#039; photo with &quot;WANTED&quot; on it?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about going after the group on campus who posted the players&#8217; photo with &#8220;WANTED&#8221; on it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Attorney		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My job and my bias lie with civil defendants, but in this case, I wouldn&#039;t mind seeing the retirement accounts/pensions of the Group of 88 transferred to the players.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My job and my bias lie with civil defendants, but in this case, I wouldn&#8217;t mind seeing the retirement accounts/pensions of the Group of 88 transferred to the players.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hans Bader		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10836</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hans Bader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10836</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems obvious to me that the plaintiffs were treated worse by Duke&#039;s administration and faculty because of their race and gender, thereby concretely harming their education and harassing them on the basis of their race and gender, in violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act (42 USC 2000d) and Title IX (20 USC 1681-1688).

So why is there not a discrimination claim under these statutes in the complaint?  I don&#039;t see one in the complaint.

Racial harassment violates federal civil rights laws, even when the victims are white.  Bowen v. Missouri Dept. of Social Services, 311 F.3d 878 (8th Cir. 2002); Huckabay v. Moore, 142 F.3d 233 (5th Cir. 1998).

Sexual harassment violates the civil rights laws even when the victims are male.  Thus, an insulting 3-day &quot;diversity training&quot; seminar that insulted males gave rise to a viable sexual harassment lawsuit in Hartman v. Pena, 914 F.Supp. 225 (N.D. Ill. 1995).

Sexual harassment in schools and colleges violates Title IX when the school or college is indifferent to it, see Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education, 526 U.S. 629 (1999) (K-12 school); Jennings v. University of North Carolina, 482 F.3d 686 (4th Cir. 2007), or when the school&#039;s administration directly promotes or engages in it itself.  Simpson v. University of Colorado, 500 F.3d 1170 (10th Cir. 2007).

Racial harassment in schools and universities also violates federal law.  See, e.g., Gant v. Wallingford Board of Education, 69 F.3d 669 (2d Cir. 1995).

Treating people as if they are guilty based on their race or sex can constitute illegal racial or sexual harassment, or discrimination.  See, e.g., Yusuf v. Vassar College, 35 F.3d 714 (2d Cir. 1994) (practice of invariably assuming guilt of males accused of sexual harassment stated claim under Title IX); Underwood v. Northwest Health Services, 57 F.Supp.2d 1289, 1303 (M.D. Ala. 1989) (“baseless accusations of racism” supported white employee’s harassment claim under Title VII); Weberg v. Franks, 229 F.3d 514, 524 (6th Cir. 2000) (suspension of white employee by official who admitted he did so based on blacks’ “perceptions,” independent of whether they had merit, to maintain workplace peace, violated Title VII).
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems obvious to me that the plaintiffs were treated worse by Duke&#8217;s administration and faculty because of their race and gender, thereby concretely harming their education and harassing them on the basis of their race and gender, in violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act (42 USC 2000d) and Title IX (20 USC 1681-1688).</p>
<p>So why is there not a discrimination claim under these statutes in the complaint?  I don&#8217;t see one in the complaint.</p>
<p>Racial harassment violates federal civil rights laws, even when the victims are white.  Bowen v. Missouri Dept. of Social Services, 311 F.3d 878 (8th Cir. 2002); Huckabay v. Moore, 142 F.3d 233 (5th Cir. 1998).</p>
<p>Sexual harassment violates the civil rights laws even when the victims are male.  Thus, an insulting 3-day &#8220;diversity training&#8221; seminar that insulted males gave rise to a viable sexual harassment lawsuit in Hartman v. Pena, 914 F.Supp. 225 (N.D. Ill. 1995).</p>
<p>Sexual harassment in schools and colleges violates Title IX when the school or college is indifferent to it, see Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education, 526 U.S. 629 (1999) (K-12 school); Jennings v. University of North Carolina, 482 F.3d 686 (4th Cir. 2007), or when the school&#8217;s administration directly promotes or engages in it itself.  Simpson v. University of Colorado, 500 F.3d 1170 (10th Cir. 2007).</p>
<p>Racial harassment in schools and universities also violates federal law.  See, e.g., Gant v. Wallingford Board of Education, 69 F.3d 669 (2d Cir. 1995).</p>
<p>Treating people as if they are guilty based on their race or sex can constitute illegal racial or sexual harassment, or discrimination.  See, e.g., Yusuf v. Vassar College, 35 F.3d 714 (2d Cir. 1994) (practice of invariably assuming guilt of males accused of sexual harassment stated claim under Title IX); Underwood v. Northwest Health Services, 57 F.Supp.2d 1289, 1303 (M.D. Ala. 1989) (“baseless accusations of racism” supported white employee’s harassment claim under Title VII); Weberg v. Franks, 229 F.3d 514, 524 (6th Cir. 2000) (suspension of white employee by official who admitted he did so based on blacks’ “perceptions,” independent of whether they had merit, to maintain workplace peace, violated Title VII).</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: John Burgess		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10835</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Burgess]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10835</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree that the players deserve &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; compensation, but how much and from whom is another question.

From Duke, whose pusillanimous faculty and administration defamed them as a group (canceling the LAX season, for instance), certainly.

From the city or state? Maybe not.

Innocent people do get caught in the crossfire of prosecutions, good and bad, inadvertently. &#039;Collateral damage&#039; isn&#039;t just applicable to military situations.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the players deserve <i>some</i> compensation, but how much and from whom is another question.</p>
<p>From Duke, whose pusillanimous faculty and administration defamed them as a group (canceling the LAX season, for instance), certainly.</p>
<p>From the city or state? Maybe not.</p>
<p>Innocent people do get caught in the crossfire of prosecutions, good and bad, inadvertently. &#8216;Collateral damage&#8217; isn&#8217;t just applicable to military situations.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Waste93		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10834</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Waste93]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually I think they may have a fair chance. In regards to the school a number of faculty members may have defamed them with their Group of 88 statement. You also have the protests stages against all the LAX players that were endorsed by those same faculty members. There was at least one case of grade retaliation by a faculty member also. If I remember the school also gave the police information about dorm card use and other information that should have required a subpoena. A school lawyer also gave legal advise to the players to not talk to anyone even their parents.

The police department and the prosecutors office gave out false information that the LAX players were not cooperating while they were. Also the NTO that was obtained listed all the players. Under state law all those named in the NTO were required to be given copies of the results of the DNA test, none of which were.

Overall I would think they have a decent chance. Especially if they can use the information from the settlement between the other three players and the school.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I think they may have a fair chance. In regards to the school a number of faculty members may have defamed them with their Group of 88 statement. You also have the protests stages against all the LAX players that were endorsed by those same faculty members. There was at least one case of grade retaliation by a faculty member also. If I remember the school also gave the police information about dorm card use and other information that should have required a subpoena. A school lawyer also gave legal advise to the players to not talk to anyone even their parents.</p>
<p>The police department and the prosecutors office gave out false information that the LAX players were not cooperating while they were. Also the NTO that was obtained listed all the players. Under state law all those named in the NTO were required to be given copies of the results of the DNA test, none of which were.</p>
<p>Overall I would think they have a decent chance. Especially if they can use the information from the settlement between the other three players and the school.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Thomlonson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Thomlonson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They were most definitely harmed and do deserve compensation BECAUSE for over a week all we heard was that some unnamed lacrosse players had raped a young woman. During that lengthy time before the identities of the 3 were revealed, every member of that team was vilified throughout Duke and Durham as their characters were slandered. They even had to stay home from school because it was determined it was not safe for members of the team to be seen in public! You would have to be crazy to think there was no emotional distress and discrimination experienced by the rest of the team during that time.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They were most definitely harmed and do deserve compensation BECAUSE for over a week all we heard was that some unnamed lacrosse players had raped a young woman. During that lengthy time before the identities of the 3 were revealed, every member of that team was vilified throughout Duke and Durham as their characters were slandered. They even had to stay home from school because it was determined it was not safe for members of the team to be seen in public! You would have to be crazy to think there was no emotional distress and discrimination experienced by the rest of the team during that time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Nieporent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/02/38-lacrosse-players-sue-duke-university/comment-page-1/#comment-10832</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Nieporent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/wpblog/?p=5891#comment-10832</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I tuned into a sports radio station coming home from a business trip tonight and the talk show host (I didn’t catch who it was but I believe it was a Philadelphia station) made the exact same point. He said that the three accused players deserve to get as much compensation as they can, but he could not see how the rest of the team has a legitimate claim to being harmed. Basically, he felt that they were just doing it for the money. I guess that won&#039;t be the first time that has every happened.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tuned into a sports radio station coming home from a business trip tonight and the talk show host (I didn’t catch who it was but I believe it was a Philadelphia station) made the exact same point. He said that the three accused players deserve to get as much compensation as they can, but he could not see how the rest of the team has a legitimate claim to being harmed. Basically, he felt that they were just doing it for the money. I guess that won&#8217;t be the first time that has every happened.</p>
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