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	Comments on: Another thought on Waddah Mustapha v. Culligan of Canada, the fly-in-bottled-water case	</title>
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	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 06:41:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Lawyer, there&#8217;s a fly in my water! &#124; money news blog		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17984</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lawyer, there&#8217;s a fly in my water! &#124; money news blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 06:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17984</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Canada&#8217;s Supreme Court, which recently overturned the ruling of a lower court in the case of Waddah Mustapha versus Culligan of Canada. Apparently, Mr. Mustapha found two flies in a bottle of Culligan water, which, he claims, caused a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Canada&#8217;s Supreme Court, which recently overturned the ruling of a lower court in the case of Waddah Mustapha versus Culligan of Canada. Apparently, Mr. Mustapha found two flies in a bottle of Culligan water, which, he claims, caused a [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Lipton		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17887</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Lipton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Any time I see the word &#039;reasonable&#039; in a legal context, I shudder.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any time I see the word &#8216;reasonable&#8217; in a legal context, I shudder.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Poser		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Poser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom. T.,

Is it clear that the distinction the Court is groping for, or should grope for, is one between frail plaintiffs and crazy ones? It seems to me that there is another distinction that would yield the desired result that is less arbitrary, namely one involving the normal range of variation. To take your example of the elderly pedestrian, determining forseeability on the basis of a healthy young adult is to use a fairly small segment of the class of potential victims, and furthmore, one near the maximum resistance to injury, as the basis. However, any driver knows that many pedestrians are middle-aged or elderly or small children and can therefore forsee the need to drive in such a way as to avoid injury to pedestrians other than healthy young adults. It is therefore reasonable to hold a driver responsible for the sort of injury that an accident might cause to a frail elderly person or a small child. On the other hand, the driver cannot reasonably forsee that a pedestrian would have the proverbial eggshell skull or some other rare medical condition. So perhaps the right criterion is not a distinction between physical and mental but rather something like &quot;within two standard deviations of the mean&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom. T.,</p>
<p>Is it clear that the distinction the Court is groping for, or should grope for, is one between frail plaintiffs and crazy ones? It seems to me that there is another distinction that would yield the desired result that is less arbitrary, namely one involving the normal range of variation. To take your example of the elderly pedestrian, determining forseeability on the basis of a healthy young adult is to use a fairly small segment of the class of potential victims, and furthmore, one near the maximum resistance to injury, as the basis. However, any driver knows that many pedestrians are middle-aged or elderly or small children and can therefore forsee the need to drive in such a way as to avoid injury to pedestrians other than healthy young adults. It is therefore reasonable to hold a driver responsible for the sort of injury that an accident might cause to a frail elderly person or a small child. On the other hand, the driver cannot reasonably forsee that a pedestrian would have the proverbial eggshell skull or some other rare medical condition. So perhaps the right criterion is not a distinction between physical and mental but rather something like &#8220;within two standard deviations of the mean&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom T.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17847</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17847</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As long as we&#039;re all carefully reading the opinion, it seems worth noting that the Canadian court did expressly affirm the &quot;eggshell-skull&quot; rule (which has been a fixture of English common law for at least a few hundred years).  

&lt;i&gt;Once a plaintiff establishes the foreseeability that a mental injury would occur in a person of ordinary fortitude, by contrast, the defendant must take the plaintiff as it finds him for purposes of damages.  As stated in White, at p. 1512, focusing on the person of ordinary fortitude for the purposes of determining foreseeability “is not to be confused with the ‘eggshell skull’ situation, where as a result of a breach of duty the damage inflicted proves to be more serious than expected”.  Rather, it is a threshold test for establishing compensability of damages at law.&lt;/i&gt;

And the quote about “reasonable fortitude” plainly cannot be taken at face value.  If a Canadian driver negligently collided with an aged, osteoporotic pedestrian, I cannot imagine that Canadian law would measure damages according to the injuries that a healthy young adult would have suffered.  In essence, the court seems to be groping for a test that limits &quot;eggshell&quot; status to preexisting physical conditions but not  mental disabilities (i.e., that distinguishes frail plaintiffs from crazy ones).

It would have been doctrinally clearer if the Court had expressly disposed of the case on causation grounds, since that&#039;s in effect what the decision does.  Essentially, this case is Palsgraf v. Long Island Railroad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we&#8217;re all carefully reading the opinion, it seems worth noting that the Canadian court did expressly affirm the &#8220;eggshell-skull&#8221; rule (which has been a fixture of English common law for at least a few hundred years).  </p>
<p><i>Once a plaintiff establishes the foreseeability that a mental injury would occur in a person of ordinary fortitude, by contrast, the defendant must take the plaintiff as it finds him for purposes of damages.  As stated in White, at p. 1512, focusing on the person of ordinary fortitude for the purposes of determining foreseeability “is not to be confused with the ‘eggshell skull’ situation, where as a result of a breach of duty the damage inflicted proves to be more serious than expected”.  Rather, it is a threshold test for establishing compensability of damages at law.</i></p>
<p>And the quote about “reasonable fortitude” plainly cannot be taken at face value.  If a Canadian driver negligently collided with an aged, osteoporotic pedestrian, I cannot imagine that Canadian law would measure damages according to the injuries that a healthy young adult would have suffered.  In essence, the court seems to be groping for a test that limits &#8220;eggshell&#8221; status to preexisting physical conditions but not  mental disabilities (i.e., that distinguishes frail plaintiffs from crazy ones).</p>
<p>It would have been doctrinally clearer if the Court had expressly disposed of the case on causation grounds, since that&#8217;s in effect what the decision does.  Essentially, this case is Palsgraf v. Long Island Railroad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Graham Simms		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graham Simms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In the opinion, the court states that if the water company&#039;s negligence was the &quot;proximate cause&quot; of the manifestations, then the water company would have been on the hook for the total amount of the damages.  Sounds like an embrace of the eggshell plaintiff rule to me.  

The eggshell plaintiff rule is a rule of damages and not proximate cause (scope of liability), but it is easy to see how the two are confused.  In physical injury cases, for the scope of liability/proximate cause inquiry courts ask if any type of physical harm was reasonably foreseeable, and if it was foreseeable, the tortfeasor is liable for the full extent of the harm.  In a negligent infliction of emotional distress claim, the scope of liability question becomes was any actionable emotional distress foreseeable.  The difference between the two inquiries is that for physical harms the court does not consider the extent of the harm when determining if it was reasonably foreseeable because it is assumed that all physical harms are actionable.  While for NIED, not all distress is actionable, and, thus, only negligence that would foreseeably cause severe emotional distress is actionable.  

I think the court&#039;s rule that NIED is only recoverable if an objective person would be disturbed limits the scope of liability without limiting the size of damage awards is limited to the tort of NEID.  The court&#039;s rule could easily be imported to an American jurisdiction by arguing that the court is making a special rule of proximate cause for NIED claims not tied to a physical injury.  So even if you have an expert come in a testify that the negligence was the cause in fact of the emotional distress, there is still the legal inquiry to determine whether the defendant&#039;s negligence was the proximate cause of the severe emotional distress.

Figuring out what is reasonably foreseeable is a whole other bottle of flies.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the opinion, the court states that if the water company&#8217;s negligence was the &#8220;proximate cause&#8221; of the manifestations, then the water company would have been on the hook for the total amount of the damages.  Sounds like an embrace of the eggshell plaintiff rule to me.  </p>
<p>The eggshell plaintiff rule is a rule of damages and not proximate cause (scope of liability), but it is easy to see how the two are confused.  In physical injury cases, for the scope of liability/proximate cause inquiry courts ask if any type of physical harm was reasonably foreseeable, and if it was foreseeable, the tortfeasor is liable for the full extent of the harm.  In a negligent infliction of emotional distress claim, the scope of liability question becomes was any actionable emotional distress foreseeable.  The difference between the two inquiries is that for physical harms the court does not consider the extent of the harm when determining if it was reasonably foreseeable because it is assumed that all physical harms are actionable.  While for NIED, not all distress is actionable, and, thus, only negligence that would foreseeably cause severe emotional distress is actionable.  </p>
<p>I think the court&#8217;s rule that NIED is only recoverable if an objective person would be disturbed limits the scope of liability without limiting the size of damage awards is limited to the tort of NEID.  The court&#8217;s rule could easily be imported to an American jurisdiction by arguing that the court is making a special rule of proximate cause for NIED claims not tied to a physical injury.  So even if you have an expert come in a testify that the negligence was the cause in fact of the emotional distress, there is still the legal inquiry to determine whether the defendant&#8217;s negligence was the proximate cause of the severe emotional distress.</p>
<p>Figuring out what is reasonably foreseeable is a whole other bottle of flies.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kushiro		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17835</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kushiro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17835</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr Mustapha comes from Lebanon (home to some truly impressive swarms of flies) and moved to Windsor (by the Detroit River).  Given his sensitivity to insects and tainted water, it&#039;s a wonder he has survived this far without serious mental trauma.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Mustapha comes from Lebanon (home to some truly impressive swarms of flies) and moved to Windsor (by the Detroit River).  Given his sensitivity to insects and tainted water, it&#8217;s a wonder he has survived this far without serious mental trauma.</p>
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		<title>
		By: P Saunders		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17798</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Saunders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 06:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17798</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds to me like he was suffering from hydrophobia. Can a bottling company be sued for causing rabies?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds to me like he was suffering from hydrophobia. Can a bottling company be sued for causing rabies?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17768</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17768</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[CJS and Anonymous #1/#6 assume away the legal issue I discuss by changing the facts and claiming that Mustapha would not be able to recover in the US because his injury wasn&#039;t &quot;serious.&quot;  This sidesteps the issue, because Canada has the same standard, requiring psychological injury to be serious before it rises to the level of personal injury.  &lt;I&gt;Hinz v. Berry&lt;/i&gt;, 2 Q.B. 40, 42 (C.A. 1970).  And the Canadian Supreme Court found that Mustapha&#039;s emotional distress was serious: &quot;The requirement of personal injury, which includes serious and prolonged psychological injury, is also met: M suffered a debilitating psychological injury which had a significant impact on his life.&quot;  Perhaps they could read the opinion that they are commenting about?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CJS and Anonymous #1/#6 assume away the legal issue I discuss by changing the facts and claiming that Mustapha would not be able to recover in the US because his injury wasn&#8217;t &#8220;serious.&#8221;  This sidesteps the issue, because Canada has the same standard, requiring psychological injury to be serious before it rises to the level of personal injury.  <i>Hinz v. Berry</i>, 2 Q.B. 40, 42 (C.A. 1970).  And the Canadian Supreme Court found that Mustapha&#8217;s emotional distress was serious: &#8220;The requirement of personal injury, which includes serious and prolonged psychological injury, is also met: M suffered a debilitating psychological injury which had a significant impact on his life.&#8221;  Perhaps they could read the opinion that they are commenting about?</p>
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		<title>
		By: asdfk		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17766</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[asdfk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17766</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The key phrase of the cited OH statute is &quot;serious&quot; emotional distress. It is my understanding that when a statute says &quot;serious,&quot; they mean it. Also, most courts, including SCOTUS, interpret actual injury and physical manifestations of an emotional injury as not being synonymous, and not sufficient. See Valley Forge Christian College v. Americans United (i know it is in the context of Fed standing, but still relevant discussion). While in most jurisdictions product liability from defective manufacturer does give rise to strict liability, his damages would be limited to the value of the product (a dollar maybe?), and the value of the emotional impairment, again from an objective perspective. I still have a hard time believing that the same case in the US would result in a runaway jury verdict, and a quick westlaw search does not bring up any cases for dead flies in water, food, etc that would indicate otherwise]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key phrase of the cited OH statute is &#8220;serious&#8221; emotional distress. It is my understanding that when a statute says &#8220;serious,&#8221; they mean it. Also, most courts, including SCOTUS, interpret actual injury and physical manifestations of an emotional injury as not being synonymous, and not sufficient. See Valley Forge Christian College v. Americans United (i know it is in the context of Fed standing, but still relevant discussion). While in most jurisdictions product liability from defective manufacturer does give rise to strict liability, his damages would be limited to the value of the product (a dollar maybe?), and the value of the emotional impairment, again from an objective perspective. I still have a hard time believing that the same case in the US would result in a runaway jury verdict, and a quick westlaw search does not bring up any cases for dead flies in water, food, etc that would indicate otherwise</p>
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		<title>
		By: CJS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/05/another-thought-on-waddah-mustapha-v-culligan-of-canada-the-fly-in-bottled-water-case/comment-page-1/#comment-17732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CJS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7055#comment-17732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I tend to think the first commenter is right.  That was my first thought on reading this - that someone claiming emotional distress (IIED or NIED) has to show that the distress wa reasonable.

Even assuming that the Ohio statute is representative of products liability law in all American states, I don&#039;t see why it would allow Mustapha&#039;s claim.  

The relevant section of the statute says:  &quot; &#039;Harm&#039; means death, physical injury to person, serious emotional distress, or physical damage to property other than the product in question. Economic loss is not &#039;harm.&#039; &quot;

To me, that statute doesn&#039;t preclude a court from dismissing a emotional distress claim where the alleged &quot;distress&quot; is something no reasonable man would suffer.  Perhaps Ohio courts have held otherwise.  But I do think that it is stretching a bit far to cateogorically say that in America this case would&#039;ve turned out differently.  I think that it stands a fair chance of getting thrown out in any court.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to think the first commenter is right.  That was my first thought on reading this &#8211; that someone claiming emotional distress (IIED or NIED) has to show that the distress wa reasonable.</p>
<p>Even assuming that the Ohio statute is representative of products liability law in all American states, I don&#8217;t see why it would allow Mustapha&#8217;s claim.  </p>
<p>The relevant section of the statute says:  &#8221; &#8216;Harm&#8217; means death, physical injury to person, serious emotional distress, or physical damage to property other than the product in question. Economic loss is not &#8216;harm.&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>To me, that statute doesn&#8217;t preclude a court from dismissing a emotional distress claim where the alleged &#8220;distress&#8221; is something no reasonable man would suffer.  Perhaps Ohio courts have held otherwise.  But I do think that it is stretching a bit far to cateogorically say that in America this case would&#8217;ve turned out differently.  I think that it stands a fair chance of getting thrown out in any court.</p>
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