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	Comments on: &#8220;As long as I am allowed to redistribute wealth&#8230;&#8221;: was Richard Neely being &#8220;ironic&#8221;?	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Neely&#8217;s lack of irony (III)		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-23648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Neely&#8217;s lack of irony (III)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-23648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] may recall a manufactured dispute over the former West Virginia Justice Richard Neely&#8217;s quote in The Product Liability Mess: As [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] may recall a manufactured dispute over the former West Virginia Justice Richard Neely&#8217;s quote in The Product Liability Mess: As [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: More on Neely, &#8220;The Product Liability Mess&#8221;		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21673</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on Neely, &#8220;The Product Liability Mess&#8221;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21673</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] entered this as a comment on Ted&#8217;s earlier post, and figured it was worth giving separate post [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] entered this as a comment on Ted&#8217;s earlier post, and figured it was worth giving separate post [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21668</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21668</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I too have read The Product Liability Mess with minute attention, having written the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.walterolson.com/2006/02/why_business_loses_in_court.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fortune magazine&lt;/a&gt; review of the book, which was among the more high-profile reviews it got. And Ted is right: the more context you supply for the quote from the rest of the book, the less doubt you will harbor that it was meant straight, not ironically. 

Since Neely&#039;s statements in the book were almost electrifyingly frank, I can&#039;t say I am surprised that he would later find it expedient to back off from and indeed disavow them; aside from changing his mind on matters of policy (at least I assume he&#039;s changed his mind), and the exigencies of his later practice as a plaintiff&#039;s lawyer, we all assumed at the time that in his judicial role he would come under enormous pressure for seemingly having admitted to deciding cases in a way many would regard as illegitimate. 

It is remarkable that he would now speak of wanting to sell books as a motivation while simultaneously maintaining that the passages in question were meant to be taken ironically. It was precisely because the statements were not presented as kidding around that they foreseeably called wide attention to the book. (This is also in tension with Thornburg&#039;s theory that Neely was critically describing other judges&#039; thought processes but not his own. I have to wonder whether she, like others who have taken up this matter recently, sat down and read the book.) 

After my Fortune review was published I met and got to know Neely; we appeared on panel discussions together and shared many conversations. Without breaking any confidences about the private talk, I will only observe that at the public appearances we did, he had ample opportunity to state that he had just been kidding or merely ironic in the passages at issue, which figured so prominently in my Fortune review, but I do not recall his taking any such opportunity. I do not know, by the way, whether I am the nameless reviewer he unkindly &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tortdeform.com/archives/2008/06/are_reformers_lying_or_just_be.html#comment-15384&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;calls a simpleton&lt;/a&gt;, but I have reason to doubt it, since he subsequently gave an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.walterolson.com/2005/10/reviews_of_the_litigation_expl.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;extraordinarily favorable blurb&lt;/a&gt; to my book The Litigation Explosion, for which I continue to be grateful. 

The whole thing is regrettable on a number of levels. I continue to think the books Neely wrote in his early career (&quot;How Courts Govern America&quot;, etc.) have much to recommend them both in substance and in their clear, pungent style, and for many reasons regret the loss of the career as public intellectual on which he had seemed to be well launched.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too have read The Product Liability Mess with minute attention, having written the <a href="http://www.walterolson.com/2006/02/why_business_loses_in_court.html" rel="nofollow">Fortune magazine</a> review of the book, which was among the more high-profile reviews it got. And Ted is right: the more context you supply for the quote from the rest of the book, the less doubt you will harbor that it was meant straight, not ironically. </p>
<p>Since Neely&#8217;s statements in the book were almost electrifyingly frank, I can&#8217;t say I am surprised that he would later find it expedient to back off from and indeed disavow them; aside from changing his mind on matters of policy (at least I assume he&#8217;s changed his mind), and the exigencies of his later practice as a plaintiff&#8217;s lawyer, we all assumed at the time that in his judicial role he would come under enormous pressure for seemingly having admitted to deciding cases in a way many would regard as illegitimate. </p>
<p>It is remarkable that he would now speak of wanting to sell books as a motivation while simultaneously maintaining that the passages in question were meant to be taken ironically. It was precisely because the statements were not presented as kidding around that they foreseeably called wide attention to the book. (This is also in tension with Thornburg&#8217;s theory that Neely was critically describing other judges&#8217; thought processes but not his own. I have to wonder whether she, like others who have taken up this matter recently, sat down and read the book.) </p>
<p>After my Fortune review was published I met and got to know Neely; we appeared on panel discussions together and shared many conversations. Without breaking any confidences about the private talk, I will only observe that at the public appearances we did, he had ample opportunity to state that he had just been kidding or merely ironic in the passages at issue, which figured so prominently in my Fortune review, but I do not recall his taking any such opportunity. I do not know, by the way, whether I am the nameless reviewer he unkindly <a href="http://www.tortdeform.com/archives/2008/06/are_reformers_lying_or_just_be.html#comment-15384" rel="nofollow">calls a simpleton</a>, but I have reason to doubt it, since he subsequently gave an <a href="http://www.walterolson.com/2005/10/reviews_of_the_litigation_expl.html" rel="nofollow">extraordinarily favorable blurb</a> to my book The Litigation Explosion, for which I continue to be grateful. </p>
<p>The whole thing is regrettable on a number of levels. I continue to think the books Neely wrote in his early career (&#8220;How Courts Govern America&#8221;, etc.) have much to recommend them both in substance and in their clear, pungent style, and for many reasons regret the loss of the career as public intellectual on which he had seemed to be well launched.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21445</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21445</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The idea of electing judges is a bad one all around. Plaintffs hate it. Defendants hate it. Yet there is not the energy out there to do anything about it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of electing judges is a bad one all around. Plaintffs hate it. Defendants hate it. Yet there is not the energy out there to do anything about it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JOHN N.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JOHN N.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21397</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I will say that I read the original excerpt as &quot;...I will continue to do so--redistribute wealth, that is&quot;
On reading the full excerpt I get a different meaning.  &quot;...I will continue to do so--sleep, that is.&quot;

I either case I don&#039;t get a sense of irony.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will say that I read the original excerpt as &#8220;&#8230;I will continue to do so&#8211;redistribute wealth, that is&#8221;<br />
On reading the full excerpt I get a different meaning.  &#8220;&#8230;I will continue to do so&#8211;sleep, that is.&#8221;</p>
<p>I either case I don&#8217;t get a sense of irony.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Rogers		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21283</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Rogers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21283</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s as though this collection of cells that responds to the utterance of &quot;Richard Neely&quot; must be a regular reader of &lt;i&gt;Das Kapital.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s as though this collection of cells that responds to the utterance of &#8220;Richard Neely&#8221; must be a regular reader of <i>Das Kapital.</i></p>
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		<title>
		By: Ken		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21264</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21264</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Do you suppose a judge -- or any Commission on Judicial Performance -- would find it appropriate to say for publication (even ironically) &quot;As long as I keep making sure defendants get convicted and putting them in jail, I&#039;ll keep getting re-elected, and I&#039;ll sleep better&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you suppose a judge &#8212; or any Commission on Judicial Performance &#8212; would find it appropriate to say for publication (even ironically) &#8220;As long as I keep making sure defendants get convicted and putting them in jail, I&#8217;ll keep getting re-elected, and I&#8217;ll sleep better&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21227</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21227</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As the full context demonstrates, Neely was not being ironic, and was expressing his actual thought processes as a judge.  I&#039;ve read the chapter.  Have you, Justinian?  You haven&#039;t even addressed the multiple quotes up there.

I don&#039;t know what the ABA Journal said that it felt it needed to make an apology, but its correction, which I was not previously aware of, is certainly not an accurate characterization of what I read, and I feel no need to mention it, and it does not change my opinion of what I read.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the full context demonstrates, Neely was not being ironic, and was expressing his actual thought processes as a judge.  I&#8217;ve read the chapter.  Have you, Justinian?  You haven&#8217;t even addressed the multiple quotes up there.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the ABA Journal said that it felt it needed to make an apology, but its correction, which I was not previously aware of, is certainly not an accurate characterization of what I read, and I feel no need to mention it, and it does not change my opinion of what I read.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Justinian Lane		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2008/06/was-richard-neely-being-ironic/comment-page-1/#comment-21225</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justinian Lane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=7141#comment-21225</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In addition to those &lt;i&gt;&quot;ipse dixit&quot;&lt;/i&gt; statements by Thornburg.  I&#039;m basing them on the fact that the ABA published the following in January of 1989:

“In the December ABA Journal a quote about product liability cases was attributed to West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals Justice Richard Neely.  The quote, from Neely’s book “The Product Liability Mess,” was taken out of context.  In the context, Neely was using an ironic style to mimic the unspoken rationale he feels some judges use to rule for plaintiffs.  The quote does not reflect Neely’s personal position on the matter, and the Journal regrets inadvertently distorting his views.”

It&#039;s hardly a personal attack to point out that neither you nor Olson (nor countless others) mentioned the correction in the ABA Journal.  As I mentioned on TortDeform, I just contacted Neely&#039;s office and expect to hear from him tomorrow.  I&#039;ll followup at TD as soon as I hear from him.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to those <i>&#8220;ipse dixit&#8221;</i> statements by Thornburg.  I&#8217;m basing them on the fact that the ABA published the following in January of 1989:</p>
<p>“In the December ABA Journal a quote about product liability cases was attributed to West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals Justice Richard Neely.  The quote, from Neely’s book “The Product Liability Mess,” was taken out of context.  In the context, Neely was using an ironic style to mimic the unspoken rationale he feels some judges use to rule for plaintiffs.  The quote does not reflect Neely’s personal position on the matter, and the Journal regrets inadvertently distorting his views.”</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hardly a personal attack to point out that neither you nor Olson (nor countless others) mentioned the correction in the ABA Journal.  As I mentioned on TortDeform, I just contacted Neely&#8217;s office and expect to hear from him tomorrow.  I&#8217;ll followup at TD as soon as I hear from him.</p>
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