It’s just that none of us support it, so there’s not much to discuss there. 😉

I’m not sure why you’re invoking my name, ginsocal. We weren’t discussing the merits of having the federal government require school-based community service.

I think that’s because none of us would be in favor of it.

How about we only continue if there’s anyone who disagrees with the core issues he identifies?

Well, yes. I’m not sure how that’s evidence for either interpretation, since it merely clarifies that they were simply trying to summarize the original proposal, without mandatory service, all along. As you note, his proposal wasn’t for programs mandatory for schools, or mandatory for students.

Absolutely not.

Well, you said there was a contradiction between my statements about community service with political advocacy and with political implications. What was the contradiction, if you’re not confusing those two terms?

“I am not equating his work as a “community organizer” as “community service.” He is.”

I apologize. I must have missed when he equated those two things, in a way that means his resume shows how political advocacy counts as community service.

“the fact that something is given back for this “community service” precludes any notion that it is “voluntary.””

I agree completely that if anything is given back, it’s not volunteer work. It may, however, be voluntary.

This boils down to three simple questions: one) Should the government mandate/impose public service on its citizens and two) how will and will not something qualify as “public service?” and three) who exactly are we talking about that should be doing this service?

Clear details from Pres-Elect Obama on this should relax this debate a little.

That would be fine except that the website later clarified the program: “Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service…”

There is no mention of a required “school program” and once again, during the campaign Obama made it clear his plan was for citizens and not some mandatory requirement that schools have programs.

You’re confusing “political implications” with “political advocacy.”

Absolutely not. Even if I were, the types of community groups Obama wants are based on political advocacy. He is basing the model on his experiences which stood on political advocacy.

No one calls for community service to include advocating for a political position, on abortion or anything else.

Yet no one precludes them either. That is my point. If a person wants to serve their community by working for abortion or against it, they are serving the community. Period. You want to claim that such service would not be allowed under the definition of “community service,” yet that is the model Obama developed and advocates.

Are you referring to his paid work as a community organizer? I think that’s quite different from doing unpaid community service, whether as a volunteer or as part of a mandatory service requirement.

I am not equating his work as a “community organizer” as “community service.” He is. And no matter what, the fact that something is given back for this “community service” precludes any notion that it is “voluntary.” It is compensation for work being performed.

Personally i’m against it being mandatory, however I would greatly support it; If it was encouraged and voluntary.

I did notice that the people complaining the most about it on the internet, if it would be mandatory, are also the people that complain the most that “people expect to recieve stuff without doing anything for it”. (just a general observation, not specifically directed at anyone.)