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	Comments on: Carelessness for millions in New York City	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 14:55:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: New York Injury Cases Blog		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-47745</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New York Injury Cases Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 14:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-47745</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Another Subway Accident - $5,950,000 Pain and Suffering Verdict for Man Struck by Subway Car (after returning from methadone clinic and drinking pure rum)...&lt;/strong&gt;

It never ends, does it? Another careless person fell onto the New York City subway tracks and was grievously injured. Then he lawyered up, sued the city and a Brooklyn jury recently found the city&#039;s motorman 70% at fault with......]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Another Subway Accident &#8211; $5,950,000 Pain and Suffering Verdict for Man Struck by Subway Car (after returning from methadone clinic and drinking pure rum)&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>It never ends, does it? Another careless person fell onto the New York City subway tracks and was grievously injured. Then he lawyered up, sued the city and a Brooklyn jury recently found the city&#8217;s motorman 70% at fault with&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Attorney		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The fact remains that non-economic, i.e. &quot;pain and suffering&quot; damages are the high-power wedge that plaintiffs can use to file suits even in cases of low actual damages, and the &quot;wild card&quot; that scares defendants into paying out a big chunk even in cases of dubious liability.

It&#039;s also what makes Eric Turkewitz&#039;s one-third contingency rate (or whatever it may be) feasible, I imagine (if someone actually had 20K in medicals and 10K in lost wages, it would seem unfair that they only g0t 20K from the jury, no?)

So why not get rid of them?

Or even set up three levels of statutory &quot;pain and suffering&quot; with fixed amounts:  $1,000 for minor, $10,000 for medium and even $100,000 for maximum?

Because not knowing whether you&#039;ll be hit for $1 or $1 million in &quot;pain and suffering&quot; is just not a part of a LEGAL SYSTEM, which by definition lets society know what the punishment will be if they screw up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact remains that non-economic, i.e. &#8220;pain and suffering&#8221; damages are the high-power wedge that plaintiffs can use to file suits even in cases of low actual damages, and the &#8220;wild card&#8221; that scares defendants into paying out a big chunk even in cases of dubious liability.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also what makes Eric Turkewitz&#8217;s one-third contingency rate (or whatever it may be) feasible, I imagine (if someone actually had 20K in medicals and 10K in lost wages, it would seem unfair that they only g0t 20K from the jury, no?)</p>
<p>So why not get rid of them?</p>
<p>Or even set up three levels of statutory &#8220;pain and suffering&#8221; with fixed amounts:  $1,000 for minor, $10,000 for medium and even $100,000 for maximum?</p>
<p>Because not knowing whether you&#8217;ll be hit for $1 or $1 million in &#8220;pain and suffering&#8221; is just not a part of a LEGAL SYSTEM, which by definition lets society know what the punishment will be if they screw up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: April 18 roundup		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45593</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[April 18 roundup]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45593</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Police payouts up but hospital payouts down: &#8220;[New York] City Paid Out $568 Million for Lawsuits Last Year&#8221; [NY Politics; Ted yesterday] [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Police payouts up but hospital payouts down: &#8220;[New York] City Paid Out $568 Million for Lawsuits Last Year&#8221; [NY Politics; Ted yesterday] [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45580</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45580</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you multiply $50,000 by 40 years, you get the good, if a bit high, estimate of the lifetime income for an average Joe  of $2M. How does one get to $27.5M, even if you throw in a couple mil for medical expenses? And how can any rational person hold that cities can prevent bus accidents? The jury in the bus case clearly failed. 

Most people believe that irrationally high verdicts are written down by the judge or the appellate courts. But that only means that jury error has been mitigated, not necessarily corrected. My impression is that the write-down process is as haphazard as the jury process.

The annual amounts of payouts per citizen  by New York City have been compared to similar statistics from other cities in the United States and in the world. I suspect that Ted Frank has those numbers. For example, Bronx juries are twice as generous as juries in other boroughs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you multiply $50,000 by 40 years, you get the good, if a bit high, estimate of the lifetime income for an average Joe  of $2M. How does one get to $27.5M, even if you throw in a couple mil for medical expenses? And how can any rational person hold that cities can prevent bus accidents? The jury in the bus case clearly failed. </p>
<p>Most people believe that irrationally high verdicts are written down by the judge or the appellate courts. But that only means that jury error has been mitigated, not necessarily corrected. My impression is that the write-down process is as haphazard as the jury process.</p>
<p>The annual amounts of payouts per citizen  by New York City have been compared to similar statistics from other cities in the United States and in the world. I suspect that Ted Frank has those numbers. For example, Bronx juries are twice as generous as juries in other boroughs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric T.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So what you see in the headlines is what you get.&lt;/i&gt;

Let&#039;s try that again:

So what you see in the headlines is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt;what you get.

And that&#039;s what I get for commenting on a blog when I should be packing to leave town for a race.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So what you see in the headlines is what you get.</i></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s try that again:</p>
<p>So what you see in the headlines is <i>not</i>what you get.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s what I get for commenting on a blog when I should be packing to leave town for a race.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric T.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45495</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45495</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ted:

Something else about jury awards in New York: The jury makes a full award without discounting. This gives high jury numbers as wage losses increase over time.

But money has a time value also. And so after the award is given, the judge does a reduction to present value pursuant to CPLR 50-A and 50-B.  The  judge uses the discount rate in effect at the time of trial. Judgments over 250K for future losses get structured and paid out as an annuity.

The court will also make deductions under our collateral source rule (CPLR 4545). Medical payments that will be paid by insurance with reasonable certainty get deducted from the verdict (if they had been claimed). 

The article, of course, doesn&#039;t break out how the damage awards in the three cases were made as between the different categories.

So what you see in the headlines is what you get. And the idea that one could draw conclusions about the relative aspects of the damage awards in the three cases based solely on the Times article is, in a word, preposterous.

For more information on damages and jury awards, I would highly recommend a new blog by John Hochfelder, New York Injury Cases Blog:  http://www.newyorkinjurycasesblog.com/

John has been going beyond the scant info in published reports and pulling briefs and calling the lawyers involved to more fully develop how damages compare from one &quot;similar&quot; case to another.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted:</p>
<p>Something else about jury awards in New York: The jury makes a full award without discounting. This gives high jury numbers as wage losses increase over time.</p>
<p>But money has a time value also. And so after the award is given, the judge does a reduction to present value pursuant to CPLR 50-A and 50-B.  The  judge uses the discount rate in effect at the time of trial. Judgments over 250K for future losses get structured and paid out as an annuity.</p>
<p>The court will also make deductions under our collateral source rule (CPLR 4545). Medical payments that will be paid by insurance with reasonable certainty get deducted from the verdict (if they had been claimed). </p>
<p>The article, of course, doesn&#8217;t break out how the damage awards in the three cases were made as between the different categories.</p>
<p>So what you see in the headlines is what you get. And the idea that one could draw conclusions about the relative aspects of the damage awards in the three cases based solely on the Times article is, in a word, preposterous.</p>
<p>For more information on damages and jury awards, I would highly recommend a new blog by John Hochfelder, New York Injury Cases Blog:  <a href="http://www.newyorkinjurycasesblog.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.newyorkinjurycasesblog.com/</a></p>
<p>John has been going beyond the scant info in published reports and pulling briefs and calling the lawyers involved to more fully develop how damages compare from one &#8220;similar&#8221; case to another.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Poser		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45477</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Poser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45477</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;And it’s also quite plain that relatively similarly situated plaintiffs got wildly different awards.&quot;

What&#039;s so plain about this? The article gives no information whatever about the occupations of the victims. Loss of a leg can have enormously different economic consequences for different people. For a professional athlete, construction worker, or dancer, it is a career-ender. For someone who sits at a desk, it has a minimal effect on employment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And it’s also quite plain that relatively similarly situated plaintiffs got wildly different awards.&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s so plain about this? The article gives no information whatever about the occupations of the victims. Loss of a leg can have enormously different economic consequences for different people. For a professional athlete, construction worker, or dancer, it is a career-ender. For someone who sits at a desk, it has a minimal effect on employment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, then that&#039;s like complaining that only the exceptional earthquakes make the newspaper.  The problem is a system that permits such &quot;exceptional&quot; cases to happen all too frequently, because it encourages lottery litigation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, then that&#8217;s like complaining that only the exceptional earthquakes make the newspaper.  The problem is a system that permits such &#8220;exceptional&#8221; cases to happen all too frequently, because it encourages lottery litigation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric T		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45440</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45440</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It’s not the case that only “exceptional” verdicts make the paper; as the other verdicts demonstrate, multi-million dollar verdicts against this single defendant are nearly a monthly event in Manhattan courts.&lt;/i&gt;

Of course only exceptional ones make the paper.  You&#039;re just being silly. Why would newspaper report, for example,  a pedestrian knockdown case with a broken leg, surgery and a $50,000 verdict?

The three accidents took place in 2002, 2005 and 2006. That they were all tried in recent months doesn&#039;t exactly show anything, except that there was an exceptional confluence of events that put them in the courthouse in closer proximity to each other than the actual accidents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s not the case that only “exceptional” verdicts make the paper; as the other verdicts demonstrate, multi-million dollar verdicts against this single defendant are nearly a monthly event in Manhattan courts.</i></p>
<p>Of course only exceptional ones make the paper.  You&#8217;re just being silly. Why would newspaper report, for example,  a pedestrian knockdown case with a broken leg, surgery and a $50,000 verdict?</p>
<p>The three accidents took place in 2002, 2005 and 2006. That they were all tried in recent months doesn&#8217;t exactly show anything, except that there was an exceptional confluence of events that put them in the courthouse in closer proximity to each other than the actual accidents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nancy Swan		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/carelessness-for-millions-in-new-york-city/comment-page-1/#comment-45433</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nancy Swan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10576#comment-45433</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh my gosh!  When  Obama announced he was going build a high speed rail system, I bet lawyers are sharpening their swords and lining up clients, eying the next pot of gold,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my gosh!  When  Obama announced he was going build a high speed rail system, I bet lawyers are sharpening their swords and lining up clients, eying the next pot of gold,</p>
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