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	<title>
	Comments on: Damned if you do, damned if you don&#8217;t files: United Airlines customer service	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:36:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: lee		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Having read all of the above I must be thankful that my experience with airlines was limited to those horrendous regulated days between 1950 and 1960.  Beautiful stewardesses, crisp and neat and always smiling.  I always had an assigned seat.  I even remember round trip flights to Florida for $99 and a meal to boot.    I&#039;m not a world traveler and the last few times (during 2003) I was on a plane to Florida to stay with my mother who was dying I flew Southwest from MacArthur.   I would describe it as herding cows.  There weren&#039;t enough wheelchairs for those who thought that would get them on first and a better seat.  People were arriving 2 hours early just to get at the head of the line.  The airline staff looked overwrought and unkempt.  Nothing like the old days.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having read all of the above I must be thankful that my experience with airlines was limited to those horrendous regulated days between 1950 and 1960.  Beautiful stewardesses, crisp and neat and always smiling.  I always had an assigned seat.  I even remember round trip flights to Florida for $99 and a meal to boot.    I&#8217;m not a world traveler and the last few times (during 2003) I was on a plane to Florida to stay with my mother who was dying I flew Southwest from MacArthur.   I would describe it as herding cows.  There weren&#8217;t enough wheelchairs for those who thought that would get them on first and a better seat.  People were arriving 2 hours early just to get at the head of the line.  The airline staff looked overwrought and unkempt.  Nothing like the old days.</p>
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		<title>
		By: P.J. Zornosa		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45803</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P.J. Zornosa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45803</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Horse Manure. You cannot blame this one on the Lawyers. There are ALWAYS exceptions. I cannot imagine ANY judge much less a jury that would even consider this to be a case worth spending time with.

The United front counter agent had a choice - and she chose to argue because she was angry about the rules and was not sensitive to her customers who are human beings. (I am certain United would have recompensed her for the hour that goes with her untaken break.) The time she spent arguing with the consumer was unacceptable. In that period of time she could have made things happen for this distressed couple. 

I am also certain thet the intent of the &quot;lawyers&quot; was to insure that United employees get a break to refresh themselves for dealing with consumers - NOT to discourage imminently appropriate customer service! Many lawyers are despicable in their motivations, however, not all of them are! (I am NOT an attorney.) 

The real reason for the United employee&#039;s anger could actually transcend the issue clearly exemplified. While the upper management earns many thousands and tens of thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands more than the front line employees, the airlines first recourse to &quot;save money&quot; is to lay off a few thousand &quot;regular&quot; employees. When was the last time a useless Sr. VP was let go so that 100  to 200 others could keep their modestly paying jobs? God forbid!!

Still does not justify what happened. It&#039;s Horse Manure. 
(They should have asked what other airlines had flights soon....to Portland.)

Certainly spent a lot of time &quot;Blaming&quot; someone here. This country used to be about the sensitivity and &quot;can do&quot; attitude. Sure has changed - and I&#039;m not an old coot!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horse Manure. You cannot blame this one on the Lawyers. There are ALWAYS exceptions. I cannot imagine ANY judge much less a jury that would even consider this to be a case worth spending time with.</p>
<p>The United front counter agent had a choice &#8211; and she chose to argue because she was angry about the rules and was not sensitive to her customers who are human beings. (I am certain United would have recompensed her for the hour that goes with her untaken break.) The time she spent arguing with the consumer was unacceptable. In that period of time she could have made things happen for this distressed couple. </p>
<p>I am also certain thet the intent of the &#8220;lawyers&#8221; was to insure that United employees get a break to refresh themselves for dealing with consumers &#8211; NOT to discourage imminently appropriate customer service! Many lawyers are despicable in their motivations, however, not all of them are! (I am NOT an attorney.) </p>
<p>The real reason for the United employee&#8217;s anger could actually transcend the issue clearly exemplified. While the upper management earns many thousands and tens of thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands more than the front line employees, the airlines first recourse to &#8220;save money&#8221; is to lay off a few thousand &#8220;regular&#8221; employees. When was the last time a useless Sr. VP was let go so that 100  to 200 others could keep their modestly paying jobs? God forbid!!</p>
<p>Still does not justify what happened. It&#8217;s Horse Manure.<br />
(They should have asked what other airlines had flights soon&#8230;.to Portland.)</p>
<p>Certainly spent a lot of time &#8220;Blaming&#8221; someone here. This country used to be about the sensitivity and &#8220;can do&#8221; attitude. Sure has changed &#8211; and I&#8217;m not an old coot!</p>
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		<title>
		By: TracyHAE		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TracyHAE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Frank:  Yes, how dare those evil &quot;Cheating&quot; workers try to make themselves look better then their peers by working extra.  If I worked in a sales environment, for example, where my commission was dependent on exceeding a goal each day you better believe Im going to work extra if need be to hit that goal.  Additionally, if I feel that the extra time would increase my change of being promoted, getting a raise, or even keeping my job in a downturn then it is my right to do so.  

Unions and labor laws have basically neutered the ability of companies to recognize and promote exceptional workers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Frank:  Yes, how dare those evil &#8220;Cheating&#8221; workers try to make themselves look better then their peers by working extra.  If I worked in a sales environment, for example, where my commission was dependent on exceeding a goal each day you better believe Im going to work extra if need be to hit that goal.  Additionally, if I feel that the extra time would increase my change of being promoted, getting a raise, or even keeping my job in a downturn then it is my right to do so.  </p>
<p>Unions and labor laws have basically neutered the ability of companies to recognize and promote exceptional workers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Janine		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anyone who works in the Airline industry knows that there are so many time&#039;s that the the agent&#039;s are expected to work thru all lunch and 10 minute breaks when there are cancellations, delays, overbooked flights and expected to stay after their shift regardless of what commitments they may have after their shift.  ( And for some stations this can be a every day thing).  You could be the only agent stuck at the gate alone, meeting, boarding, assisting physically challenged customers while your co-worker/supervisor is know where to be found.   And if your a responsible agent, management and your co-worker&#039;s will take advantage of this.  They know that you&#039;ll be there no matter what.  They won&#039;t say hey you&#039;ve been here all day go take a break, they won&#039;t ask you if you need to take a lavatory break, they will leave you there to do the work.  They will bounce you all over the station while some of your co-workers disappeared to take their smoking breaks.  This goes on all the time.  

The agent who walked away to take their break may have worked in similar situations and may have known that if they didn&#039;t step away knowone would step in to give them a break.

The airlines don&#039;t alway&#039;s properly staff and this creates a very tire some strain on the individual when their are delays and oversold flights and there is no properly scheduled breaks for the employee&#039;s.

This individual may have had medical reason&#039;s for stepping away, they may have had a need to take care of an urgent physical need.

The Airlines a famous for these types of senario&#039;s .  

And then again maybe this employee was tired of being taken advantage of by the employer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who works in the Airline industry knows that there are so many time&#8217;s that the the agent&#8217;s are expected to work thru all lunch and 10 minute breaks when there are cancellations, delays, overbooked flights and expected to stay after their shift regardless of what commitments they may have after their shift.  ( And for some stations this can be a every day thing).  You could be the only agent stuck at the gate alone, meeting, boarding, assisting physically challenged customers while your co-worker/supervisor is know where to be found.   And if your a responsible agent, management and your co-worker&#8217;s will take advantage of this.  They know that you&#8217;ll be there no matter what.  They won&#8217;t say hey you&#8217;ve been here all day go take a break, they won&#8217;t ask you if you need to take a lavatory break, they will leave you there to do the work.  They will bounce you all over the station while some of your co-workers disappeared to take their smoking breaks.  This goes on all the time.  </p>
<p>The agent who walked away to take their break may have worked in similar situations and may have known that if they didn&#8217;t step away knowone would step in to give them a break.</p>
<p>The airlines don&#8217;t alway&#8217;s properly staff and this creates a very tire some strain on the individual when their are delays and oversold flights and there is no properly scheduled breaks for the employee&#8217;s.</p>
<p>This individual may have had medical reason&#8217;s for stepping away, they may have had a need to take care of an urgent physical need.</p>
<p>The Airlines a famous for these types of senario&#8217;s .  </p>
<p>And then again maybe this employee was tired of being taken advantage of by the employer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Janine		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One of the responses you received mentioned in the manufacturing world if an employee works 8 hours and an employee works 91/2 because he/she doesn&#039;t have to show the overtime  and the employee who works 91/2 shows more productivity than the person who only work 8 hours is very similiar to employees who choose not to file for &quot;Workmen&#039;s Comp&quot; because they don&#039;t want to look bad or because they don&#039;t want to be retaliated by the employer or by the employee&#039;s who look down on a person for filing a &quot;Workmen&#039;s Comp&quot; claim is also doing the same thing by making the co-worker&#039;s who file claims and advise their employer that they were hurt (Which is required by the company and is stated in the employee handbook that they are to notify their employer if they are hurt on the job)look like they are trouble makers and costing their employer money.  The fact of the matter is Workmen&#039;s Compensation was developed to protect the employer from being sued and to discourage the employee from seeking medical treatment and compensation for future injuries.  So by not filing it makes the employer look good and allows them to get away with not addressing the safety issues that need to be corrected.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the responses you received mentioned in the manufacturing world if an employee works 8 hours and an employee works 91/2 because he/she doesn&#8217;t have to show the overtime  and the employee who works 91/2 shows more productivity than the person who only work 8 hours is very similiar to employees who choose not to file for &#8220;Workmen&#8217;s Comp&#8221; because they don&#8217;t want to look bad or because they don&#8217;t want to be retaliated by the employer or by the employee&#8217;s who look down on a person for filing a &#8220;Workmen&#8217;s Comp&#8221; claim is also doing the same thing by making the co-worker&#8217;s who file claims and advise their employer that they were hurt (Which is required by the company and is stated in the employee handbook that they are to notify their employer if they are hurt on the job)look like they are trouble makers and costing their employer money.  The fact of the matter is Workmen&#8217;s Compensation was developed to protect the employer from being sued and to discourage the employee from seeking medical treatment and compensation for future injuries.  So by not filing it makes the employer look good and allows them to get away with not addressing the safety issues that need to be corrected.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with SHG although more tactfully.   It is completely unfair to put all of this - any of this, actually - on trial lawyers.   There is a tendency for all of us to construe facts consistent with our world view.  But this is not remotely fair.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with SHG although more tactfully.   It is completely unfair to put all of this &#8211; any of this, actually &#8211; on trial lawyers.   There is a tendency for all of us to construe facts consistent with our world view.  But this is not remotely fair.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45096</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45096</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This does not seem to me to be a story desrving of much sympathy.

Reading the article you link to, I notice that, according to the delayed passenger,   the ticketing agent offered immediately to get a supervisor.  Could the supervisor have taken care of the ticketing?  Yes,  and ultimately the supervisor issued the tickets.  

I also note that the delayed passenger stated plainly &quot;I argued with this woman for a good 10 minutes&quot;

IOW, it seems very likely she would have been back from her break in time had the passenger not been arguing with the agent whether she could take a break.

The upshot of the story - the parties arrived (via United by the way) in time to share the mother&#039;s dying moments.  Why were they flying in the first place?  To do just what they were able to do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This does not seem to me to be a story desrving of much sympathy.</p>
<p>Reading the article you link to, I notice that, according to the delayed passenger,   the ticketing agent offered immediately to get a supervisor.  Could the supervisor have taken care of the ticketing?  Yes,  and ultimately the supervisor issued the tickets.  </p>
<p>I also note that the delayed passenger stated plainly &#8220;I argued with this woman for a good 10 minutes&#8221;</p>
<p>IOW, it seems very likely she would have been back from her break in time had the passenger not been arguing with the agent whether she could take a break.</p>
<p>The upshot of the story &#8211; the parties arrived (via United by the way) in time to share the mother&#8217;s dying moments.  Why were they flying in the first place?  To do just what they were able to do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In a workplace (not the airport) where there are production quotas, when a co-worker works an extra half-hour to hour and a half unpaid every day, it may tend to make that worker seem more efficient, because there is no report that it takes more time to produce what has been produced.  It may seem that other workers are inefficient, becuase they cannot produce in 8 hrs what that person produces in 9.5 hours.   It may make it seem to employers that the production quota for 8 hours should be raised or perhaps that hours should be cut.

Union or not (I&#039;m not) what people do by &#039;working on the sly&#039; is make their co-workers look bad by cheating.

By the way, studies tend to show that not taking a lunch in the middle (thereabouts)  of the day impacts most workers&#039; productivity dramatically and negatively.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a workplace (not the airport) where there are production quotas, when a co-worker works an extra half-hour to hour and a half unpaid every day, it may tend to make that worker seem more efficient, because there is no report that it takes more time to produce what has been produced.  It may seem that other workers are inefficient, becuase they cannot produce in 8 hrs what that person produces in 9.5 hours.   It may make it seem to employers that the production quota for 8 hours should be raised or perhaps that hours should be cut.</p>
<p>Union or not (I&#8217;m not) what people do by &#8216;working on the sly&#8217; is make their co-workers look bad by cheating.</p>
<p>By the way, studies tend to show that not taking a lunch in the middle (thereabouts)  of the day impacts most workers&#8217; productivity dramatically and negatively.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy E. Harris		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45090</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy E. Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45090</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I work for a large national retailer.  When I started there almost 20 years ago I was allowed to go home 30 minutes early instead of taking my 30 minute lunch.  The settlement of a lawsuit in Missouri forced a change in policy to disallow that.  Other lawsuits have restricted timing of lunches &#038; breaks further over the ensuing years.

The &lt;b&gt;law&lt;/b&gt; generally has some flexibility.  But when you are sued it doesn&#039;t matter whether you are compliant - it&#039;s whether you can &lt;i&gt;prove&lt;/i&gt; you are.  Making exceptions and allowing flexibility inhibits your ability to prove compliance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work for a large national retailer.  When I started there almost 20 years ago I was allowed to go home 30 minutes early instead of taking my 30 minute lunch.  The settlement of a lawsuit in Missouri forced a change in policy to disallow that.  Other lawsuits have restricted timing of lunches &amp; breaks further over the ensuing years.</p>
<p>The <b>law</b> generally has some flexibility.  But when you are sued it doesn&#8217;t matter whether you are compliant &#8211; it&#8217;s whether you can <i>prove</i> you are.  Making exceptions and allowing flexibility inhibits your ability to prove compliance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom T.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/04/damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont-files-united-airlines-customer-service/comment-page-1/#comment-45088</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=10498#comment-45088</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d be surprised if California labor law required United to staff the ticket counter at San Francisco (a small hub for United) with only one working employee.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be surprised if California labor law required United to staff the ticket counter at San Francisco (a small hub for United) with only one working employee.</p>
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