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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;Suing to Get More Time on Exams&#8221;	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:00:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dirk D		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dirk D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’d say that it is quite false to assume that anyone attending Princeton is well off.&quot;

No more false than assuming the validity of a suit because it happened to have been filed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d say that it is quite false to assume that anyone attending Princeton is well off.&#8221;</p>
<p>No more false than assuming the validity of a suit because it happened to have been filed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Poser		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Poser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Elite schools like Princeton generally have very extensive financial aid programs. Indeed, Harvard has long taken the position that no student will be prevented from attending due to lack of funds. According to this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/volume98/issue03/diverse/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Princeton’s class of 2012 is the 11th to matriculate since the University began revamping its financial aid practices to make a Princeton education more affordable to a broader range of students. This year, 697 freshmen, or a record 56 percent of the class, are receiving financial aid, compared to 671 freshmen, or 54 percent of the class, last year. The class includes 204 students from low-income backgrounds, or 16.4 percent of freshmen, compared to 188 low-income students, or 15 percent of the class of 2011. The average grant of $33,671 for a member of the class of 2012 is up from $31,187 a year earlier.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;d say that it is quite false to assume that anyone attending Princeton is well off.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elite schools like Princeton generally have very extensive financial aid programs. Indeed, Harvard has long taken the position that no student will be prevented from attending due to lack of funds. According to this <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/volume98/issue03/diverse/" rel="nofollow">article</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Princeton’s class of 2012 is the 11th to matriculate since the University began revamping its financial aid practices to make a Princeton education more affordable to a broader range of students. This year, 697 freshmen, or a record 56 percent of the class, are receiving financial aid, compared to 671 freshmen, or 54 percent of the class, last year. The class includes 204 students from low-income backgrounds, or 16.4 percent of freshmen, compared to 188 low-income students, or 15 percent of the class of 2011. The average grant of $33,671 for a member of the class of 2012 is up from $31,187 a year earlier.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d say that it is quite false to assume that anyone attending Princeton is well off.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hamilton Burger		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hamilton Burger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And I had no idea that any claim filed by someone who is not wealthy is &quot;presumptively true&quot;  - I must have missed that class.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I had no idea that any claim filed by someone who is not wealthy is &#8220;presumptively true&#8221;  &#8211; I must have missed that class.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hamilton Burger		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81143</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hamilton Burger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81143</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I had no idea that every plaintiff who files a meritless claim is wealthy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had no idea that every plaintiff who files a meritless claim is wealthy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: A.W.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frank

&#062; The school’s annual tuition is over $30,000 and the reality is most of the students’ families pay that freight without any assistance. 

Really and you know this, how?

And personal experience does count for something.  When you go to Yale Law School, you pay over $30,000 a year tuition.  Probably more than that these days.  Those students were generally not rich and generally needed loans to get through.  And about 1/3 of my class went to Princeton.  Given the additional cost of Yale, you have to assume that if anything the numbers were skewed toward the rich.  Yet still, the vast majorities of Princeton students at my school were not from rich families, but were also obtaining massive student loans based on the belief that a Princeton/Yale education track meant they would be very rich in the future making their loans a fairly safe bet.  The image of the ivy league just being a bunch of rich kids is more stereotype than fact.

You might discount that experience.  But for me you seem to be a guy saying, “what should you believe?  Me or your lying eyes?”  To you Princeton students are an abstraction.  For me, I can name many alumni.

Really, to suppose that for most Americans, or even most Princeton students, that after they pay $120,000 they can just plop down a bunch more money to start a frivolous lawsuit is a bit ridiculous.

When I took the LSAC, which runs the LSAT to court, that ran me $18,000 just for the preliminary injunction.  To most people, even rich people, that is a lot of money.  I am just fortunate that my parents had saved up that money to pay for law school, or else the money just wouldn’t have been there.

This picture you guys have of spoiled snotty LD-claimants just making up excuses for their own failures bears little resemblance to reality.  I won’t say there is no fraud, but I will say it is exceedingly rare.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank</p>
<p>&gt; The school’s annual tuition is over $30,000 and the reality is most of the students’ families pay that freight without any assistance. </p>
<p>Really and you know this, how?</p>
<p>And personal experience does count for something.  When you go to Yale Law School, you pay over $30,000 a year tuition.  Probably more than that these days.  Those students were generally not rich and generally needed loans to get through.  And about 1/3 of my class went to Princeton.  Given the additional cost of Yale, you have to assume that if anything the numbers were skewed toward the rich.  Yet still, the vast majorities of Princeton students at my school were not from rich families, but were also obtaining massive student loans based on the belief that a Princeton/Yale education track meant they would be very rich in the future making their loans a fairly safe bet.  The image of the ivy league just being a bunch of rich kids is more stereotype than fact.</p>
<p>You might discount that experience.  But for me you seem to be a guy saying, “what should you believe?  Me or your lying eyes?”  To you Princeton students are an abstraction.  For me, I can name many alumni.</p>
<p>Really, to suppose that for most Americans, or even most Princeton students, that after they pay $120,000 they can just plop down a bunch more money to start a frivolous lawsuit is a bit ridiculous.</p>
<p>When I took the LSAC, which runs the LSAT to court, that ran me $18,000 just for the preliminary injunction.  To most people, even rich people, that is a lot of money.  I am just fortunate that my parents had saved up that money to pay for law school, or else the money just wouldn’t have been there.</p>
<p>This picture you guys have of spoiled snotty LD-claimants just making up excuses for their own failures bears little resemblance to reality.  I won’t say there is no fraud, but I will say it is exceedingly rare.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81108</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81108</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems to me to be a poor idea that one should learn about something  through personal anecdotal experience rather than through research of published sources.   As a lawyer, you must have &quot;looked up&quot; some  thing at some time.  Did you find it an unreliable method?
 
An example of this would be your belief, based on your personal experience, that to most students at Princeton the cost of a lawsuit would be prohibitive.  The school&#039;s annual tuition is over $30,000 and the reality is most of the students&#039; families pay that freight without any assistance.   You would have to research this information, of course.  As the saying goes, if only there were some method of quickly retrieving and reviewing data from a variety of authoritative sources.  I guess you could ask a friend and extrapolate from their experience.

I think you are right that &quot;cannot&quot; alone is too strong of a descriptor of this disability.  I should have said &#039;cannot at the level of a person of average abilities&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me to be a poor idea that one should learn about something  through personal anecdotal experience rather than through research of published sources.   As a lawyer, you must have &#8220;looked up&#8221; some  thing at some time.  Did you find it an unreliable method?</p>
<p>An example of this would be your belief, based on your personal experience, that to most students at Princeton the cost of a lawsuit would be prohibitive.  The school&#8217;s annual tuition is over $30,000 and the reality is most of the students&#8217; families pay that freight without any assistance.   You would have to research this information, of course.  As the saying goes, if only there were some method of quickly retrieving and reviewing data from a variety of authoritative sources.  I guess you could ask a friend and extrapolate from their experience.</p>
<p>I think you are right that &#8220;cannot&#8221; alone is too strong of a descriptor of this disability.  I should have said &#8216;cannot at the level of a person of average abilities&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: A.W.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[jennifer

haha.  Hilarious uninformed stereotype of how LD&#039;s are demonstrated, or what accommodations are reasonable.

God forbid you should ever have an LD child, because you will learn very quickly that LD&#039;s are real, they are hard to fake, and the prejudice is prevalent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jennifer</p>
<p>haha.  Hilarious uninformed stereotype of how LD&#8217;s are demonstrated, or what accommodations are reasonable.</p>
<p>God forbid you should ever have an LD child, because you will learn very quickly that LD&#8217;s are real, they are hard to fake, and the prejudice is prevalent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jennifer		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81084</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 03:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81084</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think I have a learning disability.  Can I sue the judge to get more time to give my closing argument?  Also, I only do well on exams if I take them in a special quiet environment without the usual distractions - so I&#039;d like opposing counsel to be barred from making any objections during my examinations of witnesses.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I have a learning disability.  Can I sue the judge to get more time to give my closing argument?  Also, I only do well on exams if I take them in a special quiet environment without the usual distractions &#8211; so I&#8217;d like opposing counsel to be barred from making any objections during my examinations of witnesses.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Supremecourtjester		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81072</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Supremecourtjester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81072</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When will the first law student sue for the right to counsel on a bar exam?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When will the first law student sue for the right to counsel on a bar exam?</p>
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		<title>
		By: A.W.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2009/12/suing-to-get-more-time-on-exams/comment-page-1/#comment-81067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=15270#comment-81067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nevins

&#062; There was a time when people would have considered a career path that played to their strengths

There was a time when we were not subject to half as much regulation.  Abraham Lincoln, for instance, had practically no education but what he gave himself, became a lawyer and then president.  Today you have to not only pass a test to become a lawyer, but also graduate law school.  and that sounds all well and fine on paper, except that these exams often have a disparate impact that had nothing to do with their merits as lawyers.

The same is true accross the board.

maybe with her disabilities, she shouldn&#039;t be a doctor.  i don&#039;t know, and you know what?  you don&#039;t either.  but if we want to stop her from being a doctor then you need to confront that directly, not be exam discrimination.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevins</p>
<p>&gt; There was a time when people would have considered a career path that played to their strengths</p>
<p>There was a time when we were not subject to half as much regulation.  Abraham Lincoln, for instance, had practically no education but what he gave himself, became a lawyer and then president.  Today you have to not only pass a test to become a lawyer, but also graduate law school.  and that sounds all well and fine on paper, except that these exams often have a disparate impact that had nothing to do with their merits as lawyers.</p>
<p>The same is true accross the board.</p>
<p>maybe with her disabilities, she shouldn&#8217;t be a doctor.  i don&#8217;t know, and you know what?  you don&#8217;t either.  but if we want to stop her from being a doctor then you need to confront that directly, not be exam discrimination.</p>
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