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	<title>
	Comments on: Rand Paul, the ADA, and the gotcha narrative	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:03:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Mark Biggar		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Biggar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 15:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oops, just noticed an extra &#039;not&quot; in my comment it should read:

&quot;then no one is accommodated including the disabled&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, just noticed an extra &#8216;not&#8221; in my comment it should read:</p>
<p>&#8220;then no one is accommodated including the disabled&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91133</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 14:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91133</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oops. I meant &quot;rarely&quot; in the comment above, not really.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. I meant &#8220;rarely&#8221; in the comment above, not really.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91132</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 14:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91132</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[People in wheelchairs really go to restaurants?   That&#039;s not the argument, right?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People in wheelchairs really go to restaurants?   That&#8217;s not the argument, right?</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 12:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A group of folks on motorized wheelchairs lobbied for ADA. Who could be against people in wheelchairs. There was a chicken @ egg argument at the time. General accommodation was required for any real help to the disadvantaged group.  There was a call for elevators at all Subway stops to make the system available, but Mayor Koch said no to that.

I did see a person in a wheelchair in a restaurant last year, but such an occurrence is rare. Wheelchair ramps, accessible bathrooms are available in large numbers and at great costs. These accommodations just aren&#039;t used  enough to make sense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A group of folks on motorized wheelchairs lobbied for ADA. Who could be against people in wheelchairs. There was a chicken @ egg argument at the time. General accommodation was required for any real help to the disadvantaged group.  There was a call for elevators at all Subway stops to make the system available, but Mayor Koch said no to that.</p>
<p>I did see a person in a wheelchair in a restaurant last year, but such an occurrence is rare. Wheelchair ramps, accessible bathrooms are available in large numbers and at great costs. These accommodations just aren&#8217;t used  enough to make sense.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 21:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aaron,

Of course, the problem is that &quot;reasonable&quot; has no concrete definition.  What is &quot;reasonable&quot; to you may not be &quot;reasonable&quot; to me.  I am sure there are lots of examples your significant other can cite where they believe your are being unreasonable while you believe you are being reasonable.  (And vice versa.)

Businesses and people cannot operate under some nebulous concept of &quot;reasonable.&quot;  

They shouldn&#039;t have to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>Of course, the problem is that &#8220;reasonable&#8221; has no concrete definition.  What is &#8220;reasonable&#8221; to you may not be &#8220;reasonable&#8221; to me.  I am sure there are lots of examples your significant other can cite where they believe your are being unreasonable while you believe you are being reasonable.  (And vice versa.)</p>
<p>Businesses and people cannot operate under some nebulous concept of &#8220;reasonable.&#8221;  </p>
<p>They shouldn&#8217;t have to.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aaron Worthing		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron Worthing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 19:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gitar

Simple answer to all of your questions.  Look up the word &quot;reasonable&quot; in the phrase &quot;reasonable accommodations.&quot;  Undue burden is also a useful term.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gitar</p>
<p>Simple answer to all of your questions.  Look up the word &#8220;reasonable&#8221; in the phrase &#8220;reasonable accommodations.&#8221;  Undue burden is also a useful term.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Mark Biggar		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91012</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Biggar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 16:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91012</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;In the end, I’d rather err on the side of people with disabilities.&quot;&gt;

All well and good, but when the draconian mandate results in the  business closing, then no one is accommodated not including the disabled and then you&#039;ve &quot;thrown the bay out with the bathwater&quot;.  The current ADA law allows for a disabled person to go bounty hunting  with the goal of profiting from the monetary recovery of their suit even though they never intend to make use of the accommodation sued for in the first place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="In the end, I’d rather err on the side of people with disabilities.">
<p>All well and good, but when the draconian mandate results in the  business closing, then no one is accommodated not including the disabled and then you&#8217;ve &#8220;thrown the bay out with the bathwater&#8221;.  The current ADA law allows for a disabled person to go bounty hunting  with the goal of profiting from the monetary recovery of their suit even though they never intend to make use of the accommodation sued for in the first place.</p></blockquote>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-91000</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 12:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-91000</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jack, no one ever suggested that the Constitution would be the only source for law.   

I&#039;m sure the narrative has been in politics since before recorded history.  

The ADA sometimes leads to illogical conclusions.  I&#039;ve built commercial space, I&#039;ve spent start up capital to have to comply with inane conclusions as to what is reasonable.  That said, no complex law that has to be frequently interpreted is going to come out logically every time.  In the end, I&#039;d rather err on the side of people with disabilities.   Reasonable people can differ on this but one thing is for sure: if you strongly disagree with me, I bet you don&#039;t have a disability.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, no one ever suggested that the Constitution would be the only source for law.   </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the narrative has been in politics since before recorded history.  </p>
<p>The ADA sometimes leads to illogical conclusions.  I&#8217;ve built commercial space, I&#8217;ve spent start up capital to have to comply with inane conclusions as to what is reasonable.  That said, no complex law that has to be frequently interpreted is going to come out logically every time.  In the end, I&#8217;d rather err on the side of people with disabilities.   Reasonable people can differ on this but one thing is for sure: if you strongly disagree with me, I bet you don&#8217;t have a disability.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Alexander		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-90988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 03:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-90988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t forget, how about a building built long before the ADA was passed? We had a local restaurant closed due to a lawsuit over the bathrooms built long before ADA. Even disabled came to their defense, but that was not enough. Now, the person really trying to cash in on the ADA (as seen by their prior actions) nor anybody else , including their previous disabled clients, can use it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget, how about a building built long before the ADA was passed? We had a local restaurant closed due to a lawsuit over the bathrooms built long before ADA. Even disabled came to their defense, but that was not enough. Now, the person really trying to cash in on the ADA (as seen by their prior actions) nor anybody else , including their previous disabled clients, can use it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/05/rand-paul-the-ada-and-the-gotcha-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-90985</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 01:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=17476#comment-90985</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Ditto, you don’t need a sign that says “no people in wheelchairs allowed”—you just need to put up stairs and no wheelchair ramp.&lt;/i&gt;

Would you apply the same logic to places that sell hamburgers and thereby &quot;discriminate&quot; against vegetarians or vegans?  How about a store that decides to sell Pepsi but not Coke?  Would they be discriminating against people who want to buy Coke?  

At some point we have to step back and say that businesses have a basic right to make decisions based on the best interest of their business.  

What do you say to a business that is forced to change a building at the costs of tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) and gets a return on investment of no where near that amount?  

There is balance that needs to be struck and currently is not.  If a restaurant cannot accommodate a person in a wheel chair without taking up so much space that they cannot serve or seat others, the business should be able to make that call.  

Instead, we have a &quot;cookie cutter&quot; approach that says it is always on the business to accommodate and never on the person claiming a disability.  

There is no balance to this at all.   The ADA tramples on the rights of many while inventing &quot;rights&quot; that do not exist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Ditto, you don’t need a sign that says “no people in wheelchairs allowed”—you just need to put up stairs and no wheelchair ramp.</i></p>
<p>Would you apply the same logic to places that sell hamburgers and thereby &#8220;discriminate&#8221; against vegetarians or vegans?  How about a store that decides to sell Pepsi but not Coke?  Would they be discriminating against people who want to buy Coke?  </p>
<p>At some point we have to step back and say that businesses have a basic right to make decisions based on the best interest of their business.  </p>
<p>What do you say to a business that is forced to change a building at the costs of tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) and gets a return on investment of no where near that amount?  </p>
<p>There is balance that needs to be struck and currently is not.  If a restaurant cannot accommodate a person in a wheel chair without taking up so much space that they cannot serve or seat others, the business should be able to make that call.  </p>
<p>Instead, we have a &#8220;cookie cutter&#8221; approach that says it is always on the business to accommodate and never on the person claiming a disability.  </p>
<p>There is no balance to this at all.   The ADA tramples on the rights of many while inventing &#8220;rights&#8221; that do not exist.</p>
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