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	<title>
	Comments on: Told-you-so dept.: USDOT exonerates Toyota	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:40:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: JoseyWales		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JoseyWales]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would agree they are in cahoots but I think their data is correct.

I experienced the floor mat problem, however, the problem is that the mat creeps under the brake - not over the gas pedal.  The lack of braking makes you think at first that you have a stuck accelerator.  The natural reaction is to step on the accelerator which only makes the problem worse.

I was able to figure out that it was the lack of braking caused by a mat creeping underneath the brake pedal, was able to put the car (a 2005 Prius) into neutral, then work the floor mat out from under the brake.

I allowed by Prius to be recalled, however, they did not solve this problem.  In fact, after a call to their corporate service people I discovered they don&#039;t even recognize it as a problem.

A complaint to the NTHSA two months ago has been left unresolved.  In fact, after I complained via email to the NTHSA that it had ignored my complaint, they promptly closed my file.

Personally, I think the NTHSA is as bad if not worse than the MMS.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree they are in cahoots but I think their data is correct.</p>
<p>I experienced the floor mat problem, however, the problem is that the mat creeps under the brake &#8211; not over the gas pedal.  The lack of braking makes you think at first that you have a stuck accelerator.  The natural reaction is to step on the accelerator which only makes the problem worse.</p>
<p>I was able to figure out that it was the lack of braking caused by a mat creeping underneath the brake pedal, was able to put the car (a 2005 Prius) into neutral, then work the floor mat out from under the brake.</p>
<p>I allowed by Prius to be recalled, however, they did not solve this problem.  In fact, after a call to their corporate service people I discovered they don&#8217;t even recognize it as a problem.</p>
<p>A complaint to the NTHSA two months ago has been left unresolved.  In fact, after I complained via email to the NTHSA that it had ignored my complaint, they promptly closed my file.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the NTHSA is as bad if not worse than the MMS.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Have Toyota Supporters Embraced NHTSA Unintended Acceleration Report Too Soon?		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94621</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Have Toyota Supporters Embraced NHTSA Unintended Acceleration Report Too Soon?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94621</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] report led a cohort of anti-trial lawyer writers to bask in the &#8220;told-you-so&#8221; moment. One Toyota supporter, Walter Olsen, a Cato Institute fellow who runs the popular [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] report led a cohort of anti-trial lawyer writers to bask in the &#8220;told-you-so&#8221; moment. One Toyota supporter, Walter Olsen, a Cato Institute fellow who runs the popular [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rliyen		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94543</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rliyen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94543</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[marco73 ,

  You just reminded me of when I was learning to drive over 23 years ago.  I was with my mother, in her Toyota Corrolla no less, and was turning onto a side street to get to my home.  A car, going a little over the speed limit, was coming down the side street I planned on turning onto and was coming down to a stop at the intersection.

  I don&#039;t know if it was the sudden appearance or the speed.  I was in no danger of being hit or hitting her, but I panicked.  I oversteered to the right, jumping the curb and sideswiped a stop sign.  The sign marred the paint job of the passenger&#039;s side and I think jumping the curb popped the right front tire.

  I felt terrible at the accident and I knew it was my fault.  Never in a million years would I have blamed the car for that error.  Nevertheless, my mother forgave me and still let me use the car for driving practice.

  I just hope when my son&#039;s old enough, that he won&#039;t have to go through the same thing. =o)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marco73 ,</p>
<p>  You just reminded me of when I was learning to drive over 23 years ago.  I was with my mother, in her Toyota Corrolla no less, and was turning onto a side street to get to my home.  A car, going a little over the speed limit, was coming down the side street I planned on turning onto and was coming down to a stop at the intersection.</p>
<p>  I don&#8217;t know if it was the sudden appearance or the speed.  I was in no danger of being hit or hitting her, but I panicked.  I oversteered to the right, jumping the curb and sideswiped a stop sign.  The sign marred the paint job of the passenger&#8217;s side and I think jumping the curb popped the right front tire.</p>
<p>  I felt terrible at the accident and I knew it was my fault.  Never in a million years would I have blamed the car for that error.  Nevertheless, my mother forgave me and still let me use the car for driving practice.</p>
<p>  I just hope when my son&#8217;s old enough, that he won&#8217;t have to go through the same thing. =o)</p>
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		<title>
		By: CarLitGuy		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94539</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarLitGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94539</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[VMS,
the black boxes, if you will, in most manufacturer&#039;s cars require very specialized equipment to download - equipment not typically present at a servicing dealership.  Once obtained, the information is dense, and takes a while to decode and appropriately interpret.   The skill set needed to do so is quite specialized, and uncommon within the industry.  Off the top of my head, the only thing NHTSA has going for it in this investigation is that all of the vehcles involved appear to be closely related in design and model years - its likely that the event data recorders in all of the vehicles they are reviewing capture substantially the same information, from substantially similar sensors, over essentially identical periods of time.

A report on an individual vehicle within a few weeks is generally reasonable.  Compiling multiple reports, from multiple vehicles, to look for anything but obvious points of comparison (i.e. Brake Depressed or Throttle Position in the seconds leading up to the event) within the entire data set.... that takes more time.  In cases where there was no &quot;event&quot; (such as an accident resulting in an air bage deployment, or a &quot;near deployment&quot; event), no data record would be available at all.

Still, I share your frustration, and eagerly await the &quot;official&quot; NHTSA report, even though I have strong feelings as to its likely conclusions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VMS,<br />
the black boxes, if you will, in most manufacturer&#8217;s cars require very specialized equipment to download &#8211; equipment not typically present at a servicing dealership.  Once obtained, the information is dense, and takes a while to decode and appropriately interpret.   The skill set needed to do so is quite specialized, and uncommon within the industry.  Off the top of my head, the only thing NHTSA has going for it in this investigation is that all of the vehcles involved appear to be closely related in design and model years &#8211; its likely that the event data recorders in all of the vehicles they are reviewing capture substantially the same information, from substantially similar sensors, over essentially identical periods of time.</p>
<p>A report on an individual vehicle within a few weeks is generally reasonable.  Compiling multiple reports, from multiple vehicles, to look for anything but obvious points of comparison (i.e. Brake Depressed or Throttle Position in the seconds leading up to the event) within the entire data set&#8230;. that takes more time.  In cases where there was no &#8220;event&#8221; (such as an accident resulting in an air bage deployment, or a &#8220;near deployment&#8221; event), no data record would be available at all.</p>
<p>Still, I share your frustration, and eagerly await the &#8220;official&#8221; NHTSA report, even though I have strong feelings as to its likely conclusions.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: VMS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94510</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VMS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94510</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ted Frank&#039;s crude statistical analysis on this matter when the story first broke was good enough for me.

What bothers me is that the NHTSA had to have had the data from the memory modules in each automobile in hand in a very short time. Why does it take them months to issue a report? [that&#039;s a semi rhetorical question]  In private industry, a final report would have been forthcoming in a few weeks.

The unanswered question is whether the spacing of the gas and brake  pedals in Toyotas is significantly different than in other cars to make them prone to driver mix-up. Probably not (from my experience), but I did not exhaustively check this out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted Frank&#8217;s crude statistical analysis on this matter when the story first broke was good enough for me.</p>
<p>What bothers me is that the NHTSA had to have had the data from the memory modules in each automobile in hand in a very short time. Why does it take them months to issue a report? [that&#8217;s a semi rhetorical question]  In private industry, a final report would have been forthcoming in a few weeks.</p>
<p>The unanswered question is whether the spacing of the gas and brake  pedals in Toyotas is significantly different than in other cars to make them prone to driver mix-up. Probably not (from my experience), but I did not exhaustively check this out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Lipton		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94498</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Lipton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94498</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[USA TODAY had a piece on this  and they just mentioned in on CNBC.

Bob]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USA TODAY had a piece on this  and they just mentioned in on CNBC.</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>
		By: GregS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GregS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s more likely is that the critics will conclude either (a) there must have been another flaw in the electronics that caused the data recorders to incorrectly record the throttle being open when the brake was applied, or (b) there&#039;s a cover up by the USDOT because they&#039;re in cahoots with Toyota.  You see, once a certain type of mind has committed itself to a conclusion, nothing can uncommitt it, and instead it deals with contradicting evidence by coming up with a rationalization to explain away the evidence.  The critics &quot;know&quot; that Toyota is guilty, so evidence that points towards their innocence cannot be true and must be discredited, explained away, or ignored.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s more likely is that the critics will conclude either (a) there must have been another flaw in the electronics that caused the data recorders to incorrectly record the throttle being open when the brake was applied, or (b) there&#8217;s a cover up by the USDOT because they&#8217;re in cahoots with Toyota.  You see, once a certain type of mind has committed itself to a conclusion, nothing can uncommitt it, and instead it deals with contradicting evidence by coming up with a rationalization to explain away the evidence.  The critics &#8220;know&#8221; that Toyota is guilty, so evidence that points towards their innocence cannot be true and must be discredited, explained away, or ignored.</p>
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		<title>
		By: marco73		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[marco73]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love the end, the &quot;ageist&quot; and &quot;sexist&quot; quote. My son was just in summer driver&#039;s education class last month with a bunch of 15 and 16 year old, very inexperienced drivers. One of the boys managed to drive a small Ford over a curb and into a park bench. Very minor damage and no injuries. So it must have been the Ford that failed, not the fact that the boy panicked and got the accelerator and the brake mixed up. It would be &quot;ageist&quot; and &quot;sexist&quot; to say otherwise. As I&#039;ve commented before on this site, if the cars are to blame, where are the new stories about the teenaged inexperienced drivers with runaway cars?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the end, the &#8220;ageist&#8221; and &#8220;sexist&#8221; quote. My son was just in summer driver&#8217;s education class last month with a bunch of 15 and 16 year old, very inexperienced drivers. One of the boys managed to drive a small Ford over a curb and into a park bench. Very minor damage and no injuries. So it must have been the Ford that failed, not the fact that the boy panicked and got the accelerator and the brake mixed up. It would be &#8220;ageist&#8221; and &#8220;sexist&#8221; to say otherwise. As I&#8217;ve commented before on this site, if the cars are to blame, where are the new stories about the teenaged inexperienced drivers with runaway cars?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94472</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94472</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve got a post up now &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/07/13/u-s-dot-crash-data-suggest-driver-error-in-toyota-accidents/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;at Cato at Liberty&lt;/a&gt; on the new numbers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a post up now <a href="http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/07/13/u-s-dot-crash-data-suggest-driver-error-in-toyota-accidents/" rel="nofollow">at Cato at Liberty</a> on the new numbers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: On the new Toyota findings		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/07/told-you-so-dept-usdot-exonerates-toyota/comment-page-1/#comment-94468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[On the new Toyota findings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=18236#comment-94468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] I&#8217;ve got a new post up at Cato at Liberty on the new report that NHTSA investigators found no electronic flaws in the cars and extensive evidence of driver error. Ted&#8217;s post yesterday is below. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;ve got a new post up at Cato at Liberty on the new report that NHTSA investigators found no electronic flaws in the cars and extensive evidence of driver error. Ted&#8217;s post yesterday is below. [&#8230;]</p>
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