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	<title>
	Comments on: Swing sets removed from playgrounds	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:02:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: School Playground		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100967</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[School Playground]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100967</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I professionally install playgrounds for a living and I see the satisfaction playgrounds bring to the children and how it is an integral part of exercising and socializing.  I wish the attorneys would not get involved.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I professionally install playgrounds for a living and I see the satisfaction playgrounds bring to the children and how it is an integral part of exercising and socializing.  I wish the attorneys would not get involved.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William Nuesslein		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Nuesslein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ken Kustka&#039;s comment was very interesting and I thank him for it.

The problem is that adherence to standards should protect against lawsuits. Something went wrong. And I suspect that the costs associated with the standards are not justified by the benefits. Look at the horrendous costs to deal with lead paint when the risks are much more imagined than real. Yes, too much lead is harmful. So is too much water.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Kustka&#8217;s comment was very interesting and I thank him for it.</p>
<p>The problem is that adherence to standards should protect against lawsuits. Something went wrong. And I suspect that the costs associated with the standards are not justified by the benefits. Look at the horrendous costs to deal with lead paint when the risks are much more imagined than real. Yes, too much lead is harmful. So is too much water.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.T. Wenting		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.T. Wenting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;There is no law anywhere that says a playground must be idiot-proof. The standard is whether reasonable steps were taken under the circumstances, &quot;

except of course that any injury lawyer worth his commission on the millions of income from lawsuits will be able to argue that ANY injury under ANY circumstances is conclusive evidence that &quot;reasonable steps&quot; were not taken.

&quot;Are there trees on the playground? I sure hope not – a kid could jump or fall out of one. &quot;

Worse, something could fall out of it and injure a kid. Can&#039;t have that, so have to cut down all trees.

Western society has become so risk averse we&#039;re stupified and incapable of doing anything.
We&#039;re basking in our past successes, telling ourselves we&#039;ve achieved so much, while at the same time reducing ourselves to nothing.
That is the way of the dodo, the path to extinction, and we&#039;re willingly embarking on it under the banner of &quot;health and safety&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is no law anywhere that says a playground must be idiot-proof. The standard is whether reasonable steps were taken under the circumstances, &#8221;</p>
<p>except of course that any injury lawyer worth his commission on the millions of income from lawsuits will be able to argue that ANY injury under ANY circumstances is conclusive evidence that &#8220;reasonable steps&#8221; were not taken.</p>
<p>&#8220;Are there trees on the playground? I sure hope not – a kid could jump or fall out of one. &#8221;</p>
<p>Worse, something could fall out of it and injure a kid. Can&#8217;t have that, so have to cut down all trees.</p>
<p>Western society has become so risk averse we&#8217;re stupified and incapable of doing anything.<br />
We&#8217;re basking in our past successes, telling ourselves we&#8217;ve achieved so much, while at the same time reducing ourselves to nothing.<br />
That is the way of the dodo, the path to extinction, and we&#8217;re willingly embarking on it under the banner of &#8220;health and safety&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Alexander		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 03:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100053</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kimsch, different park and different steam engine. This was at Sequoia Park and Zoo, and it was a full size engine rather than one used in the woods. Across from the mall is the Fort Humboldt park, where the fort used to be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimsch, different park and different steam engine. This was at Sequoia Park and Zoo, and it was a full size engine rather than one used in the woods. Across from the mall is the Fort Humboldt park, where the fort used to be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kimsch		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100041</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kimsch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100041</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Bill - as of 1996 they still had the steam engine and  on the third Saturday of every month they run it on the track. Free rides on a Steam train just across the road from the mall.

As the train was running on the day I saw it (third Saturday in July, 1996) there was no climbing on it. I don&#039;t know what happens or what is allowed the rest of the month.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill &#8211; as of 1996 they still had the steam engine and  on the third Saturday of every month they run it on the track. Free rides on a Steam train just across the road from the mall.</p>
<p>As the train was running on the day I saw it (third Saturday in July, 1996) there was no climbing on it. I don&#8217;t know what happens or what is allowed the rest of the month.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jackie Chiles		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jackie Chiles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Are there trees on the playground?  I sure hope not - a kid could jump or fall out of one.  

Hey, maybe the NRPA can train the trees how to grow so they will be safe but challenging.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there trees on the playground?  I sure hope not &#8211; a kid could jump or fall out of one.  </p>
<p>Hey, maybe the NRPA can train the trees how to grow so they will be safe but challenging.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Alexander		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100033</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 18:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100033</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[40 years ago, the city of Eureka, CA had a real steam engine in the park, and kids could (and did) climb all over it. There is no way this could happen today, yet I don&#039;t believe anybody ever got hurt on it, and it was a great experience. Sad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>40 years ago, the city of Eureka, CA had a real steam engine in the park, and kids could (and did) climb all over it. There is no way this could happen today, yet I don&#8217;t believe anybody ever got hurt on it, and it was a great experience. Sad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ken Kutska, CPSI		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100031</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Kutska, CPSI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 18:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100031</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a Certified Playground Safety Inspector and instructor for the National Recreation and Park Association&#039;s Certified Playground Safety Inspector Course, I will tell you there will never be a 100% safe playground since we as owner/operators and designers of these spaces can ever totally anticipate how these children will use the environment in uninteded ways. There are all types of know safety concerns identified by the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard for public play equipment (ASTM F1487-07ae1) and the Consumer Product Safety Commission&#039;s Handbook for Public Playground Safety #325. 

Our job or the issue is to eliminate these know safety issues not to take away risk or challenge in a child&#039;s evironment but to provide a well thought out and maintained environment that will allow kids ot be kids without restricting their ability to explore and challenge their individual abilities and to better understand personal accountability for poor choices. 

The NRPA has trained over 40,000 participants in their playground safety program in hipes the participants will apply this new knowledge and effectively use the tools now available to them to provide a safe yet challenging play environment for all children. 

What I have learned over the past twenty or so years is there are many who have a responsiblity to do just that but they have not taken the time to learn what their responsiblities are and act appropriately. There are still many jurisdictions that continue to stick their heads in the sand and ignor industry standards or &quot;best practices within the industry&quot;. These safety recommendations can do a lot to eliminate some of this perceived liability. Sure I would like to see a lot of this litigation go away but I would also would like to see a requirement that before any entity recieves a permit or grant to build a public playground that they show documentation for having a trained CPSI on their staff who will work to maintain these safe havens for the benefit of all who use them. Without an ongoing commitment to the maintenance of these spaces throughout the life of the playground (which is required in the ASTM F1487 standard) we should not be building it in the first place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Certified Playground Safety Inspector and instructor for the National Recreation and Park Association&#8217;s Certified Playground Safety Inspector Course, I will tell you there will never be a 100% safe playground since we as owner/operators and designers of these spaces can ever totally anticipate how these children will use the environment in uninteded ways. There are all types of know safety concerns identified by the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard for public play equipment (ASTM F1487-07ae1) and the Consumer Product Safety Commission&#8217;s Handbook for Public Playground Safety #325. </p>
<p>Our job or the issue is to eliminate these know safety issues not to take away risk or challenge in a child&#8217;s evironment but to provide a well thought out and maintained environment that will allow kids ot be kids without restricting their ability to explore and challenge their individual abilities and to better understand personal accountability for poor choices. </p>
<p>The NRPA has trained over 40,000 participants in their playground safety program in hipes the participants will apply this new knowledge and effectively use the tools now available to them to provide a safe yet challenging play environment for all children. </p>
<p>What I have learned over the past twenty or so years is there are many who have a responsiblity to do just that but they have not taken the time to learn what their responsiblities are and act appropriately. There are still many jurisdictions that continue to stick their heads in the sand and ignor industry standards or &#8220;best practices within the industry&#8221;. These safety recommendations can do a lot to eliminate some of this perceived liability. Sure I would like to see a lot of this litigation go away but I would also would like to see a requirement that before any entity recieves a permit or grant to build a public playground that they show documentation for having a trained CPSI on their staff who will work to maintain these safe havens for the benefit of all who use them. Without an ongoing commitment to the maintenance of these spaces throughout the life of the playground (which is required in the ASTM F1487 standard) we should not be building it in the first place.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric T.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric T.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Since you read the article you know that the cause of the accident was that the child was trying act like superman. In other words the child was at fault.&lt;/i&gt;

Richard: There is no way to tell from the short article if Superman jumped 2 feet or 20. We only know that the school acknowledged the surface was not safe.

There is no law anywhere that says a playground must be idiot-proof. The standard is whether reasonable steps were taken under the circumstances, and the school seems to indicate (albeit in a very short article that leaves both of wanting more info) that they didn&#039;t do what they knew had to be done.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Since you read the article you know that the cause of the accident was that the child was trying act like superman. In other words the child was at fault.</i></p>
<p>Richard: There is no way to tell from the short article if Superman jumped 2 feet or 20. We only know that the school acknowledged the surface was not safe.</p>
<p>There is no law anywhere that says a playground must be idiot-proof. The standard is whether reasonable steps were taken under the circumstances, and the school seems to indicate (albeit in a very short article that leaves both of wanting more info) that they didn&#8217;t do what they knew had to be done.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Nieporent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/09/swing-sets-removed-from-playgrounds/comment-page-1/#comment-100025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Nieporent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=19123#comment-100025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eric, do you really think that I was recommending that they go back to using concrete? The point of my comment was that despite all of the added “safety” features there are more lawsuits nowadays. Since you read the article you know that the cause of the accident was that the child was trying act like superman. In other words the child was at fault. However, the school had to pay because they didn’t idiot proof the playground. Short of covering each child in bubble wrap, there is no way to prevent a child from injuring himself if he does something really stupid. And when that happens there will always be a lawyer arguing that if the school had only added some more padding then the injury would not have occurred.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, do you really think that I was recommending that they go back to using concrete? The point of my comment was that despite all of the added “safety” features there are more lawsuits nowadays. Since you read the article you know that the cause of the accident was that the child was trying act like superman. In other words the child was at fault. However, the school had to pay because they didn’t idiot proof the playground. Short of covering each child in bubble wrap, there is no way to prevent a child from injuring himself if he does something really stupid. And when that happens there will always be a lawyer arguing that if the school had only added some more padding then the injury would not have occurred.</p>
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