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	Comments on: $100K battle over pet in condo	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:22:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: gnut		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-110209</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gnut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-110209</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062; If the board, comprised of your busybody neighbors, 
&#062; makes a bad decision, everyone will have to pay for it.

Robert,

It&#039;s far worse than that.

HOAs, which have the power of small governments, but are shielded as corporations.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://paranoiatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;view=article&#038;id=87:hoa-corporations-as-a-defective-product&#038;catid=27:organizations&#038;Itemid=56&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;As corporations, HOAs are a defective product&lt;/a&gt;.

A corporation is an entity created to protect an investor&#039;s personal assets.  For example, if you invest in Corporation X, and X is sued, fined by the government, or goes bankrupt, your liability is limited to your personal investment.  The creditors that X owes money to can&#039;t go after your home, your car, your bank account, etc.

But an HOA corporation&#039;s assets are the ability to issue to collect dues, collect fines, collect fees, place liens on, and foreclose on the homes of its &quot;members,&quot; whose &quot;investment&quot; in the corporation is their largest, most valuable personal asset they will ever own.

If you live in a Common Interest Community governed by an HOA corporation, your home will be collateral to whatever debts and liabilities the HOA corporation creates -- forever; even after you have worked to pay off the mortgage.    If you belong to a homeowners association, you can never truly own your own home.

It is suspected that HOA corporations -- which are often run by the lawyers, not the &quot;elected&quot; board members -- target homes that are paid off.   &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2002/12/17/carollloyd.DTL&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The power to foreclose for trivial amounts and reasons, often without any judicial oversight&lt;/a&gt;, leads to horrible abuses of individual homeowners.  These stories are strangely absent from the &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://overlawyered.com/tag/legal-extortion/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Legal Extortion&lt;/a&gt;&quot; category, or any other section, of Overlawyered.

For example, you&#039;d think the story Michael Clauer would have been reported here.  But it was not.  Long story short:  while Captain Clauer was deployed to Iraq, his $300,000 home -- which was paid for free-and-clear -- was foreclosed upon by his HOA to pay $3,500 in HOA attorney&#039;s fees incurred over an $800 dispute. Who bought the house for $3,500?  The HOA sold it for $135,000 to the attorney&#039;s business partner.   You can bet there were a lot of large unmarked envelopes changing hands in that deal.

The only major media outlets to report on the theft of Captain Clauer&#039;s home by the HOA&#039;s lawyers were the left-wing &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/05/soldier-iraq-loses-home-homeowners-association-foreclose&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mother Jones&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt; and the liberal NPR &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128078864&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;All Things Considered&lt;/a&gt;&quot;.    Although this story broke just before Memorial Day, &lt;a href=&quot;http://paranoiatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;view=article&#038;id=81:atlas-shrugs-the-troops&#038;catid=27:organizations&#038;Itemid=56&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the right-of-center punditocracy -- including Overlawyered -- was curiously silent&lt;/a&gt;.   Support the troops, unless such support conflicts with the financial interest of sleazy corporate-communist lawyers.

After having been involved with HOA issues for over a year now, I have become convinced that the whole &quot;tort reform&quot; movement, led by sites such as this, is about making it harder for individuals to sue corporations, but not the other way around.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; If the board, comprised of your busybody neighbors,<br />
&gt; makes a bad decision, everyone will have to pay for it.</p>
<p>Robert,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s far worse than that.</p>
<p>HOAs, which have the power of small governments, but are shielded as corporations.  <a href="http://paranoiatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=87:hoa-corporations-as-a-defective-product&amp;catid=27:organizations&amp;Itemid=56" rel="nofollow">As corporations, HOAs are a defective product</a>.</p>
<p>A corporation is an entity created to protect an investor&#8217;s personal assets.  For example, if you invest in Corporation X, and X is sued, fined by the government, or goes bankrupt, your liability is limited to your personal investment.  The creditors that X owes money to can&#8217;t go after your home, your car, your bank account, etc.</p>
<p>But an HOA corporation&#8217;s assets are the ability to issue to collect dues, collect fines, collect fees, place liens on, and foreclose on the homes of its &#8220;members,&#8221; whose &#8220;investment&#8221; in the corporation is their largest, most valuable personal asset they will ever own.</p>
<p>If you live in a Common Interest Community governed by an HOA corporation, your home will be collateral to whatever debts and liabilities the HOA corporation creates &#8212; forever; even after you have worked to pay off the mortgage.    If you belong to a homeowners association, you can never truly own your own home.</p>
<p>It is suspected that HOA corporations &#8212; which are often run by the lawyers, not the &#8220;elected&#8221; board members &#8212; target homes that are paid off.   <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2002/12/17/carollloyd.DTL" rel="nofollow">The power to foreclose for trivial amounts and reasons, often without any judicial oversight</a>, leads to horrible abuses of individual homeowners.  These stories are strangely absent from the &#8220;<a href="http://overlawyered.com/tag/legal-extortion/" rel="nofollow">Legal Extortion</a>&#8221; category, or any other section, of Overlawyered.</p>
<p>For example, you&#8217;d think the story Michael Clauer would have been reported here.  But it was not.  Long story short:  while Captain Clauer was deployed to Iraq, his $300,000 home &#8212; which was paid for free-and-clear &#8212; was foreclosed upon by his HOA to pay $3,500 in HOA attorney&#8217;s fees incurred over an $800 dispute. Who bought the house for $3,500?  The HOA sold it for $135,000 to the attorney&#8217;s business partner.   You can bet there were a lot of large unmarked envelopes changing hands in that deal.</p>
<p>The only major media outlets to report on the theft of Captain Clauer&#8217;s home by the HOA&#8217;s lawyers were the left-wing <i><a href="http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/05/soldier-iraq-loses-home-homeowners-association-foreclose" rel="nofollow">Mother Jones</a></i> and the liberal NPR &#8220;<a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128078864" rel="nofollow">All Things Considered</a>&#8220;.    Although this story broke just before Memorial Day, <a href="http://paranoiatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=81:atlas-shrugs-the-troops&amp;catid=27:organizations&amp;Itemid=56" rel="nofollow">the right-of-center punditocracy &#8212; including Overlawyered &#8212; was curiously silent</a>.   Support the troops, unless such support conflicts with the financial interest of sleazy corporate-communist lawyers.</p>
<p>After having been involved with HOA issues for over a year now, I have become convinced that the whole &#8220;tort reform&#8221; movement, led by sites such as this, is about making it harder for individuals to sue corporations, but not the other way around.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-110137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 21:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-110137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is exactly one of the reasons I will never live in an HOA-ruled community. If the board, comprised of your busybody neighbors, makes a bad decision, everyone will have to pay for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is exactly one of the reasons I will never live in an HOA-ruled community. If the board, comprised of your busybody neighbors, makes a bad decision, everyone will have to pay for it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: gnut		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-110121</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gnut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 16:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-110121</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062; I said the wrong thing; what I meant was that they could sue 
&#062; the board members, not the HOA itself.

VMS is right.  In the HOA model of corporate government, board members tend to be indemnified -- either you can&#039;t sue them, or they have insurance which the homeowners are paying for.

And the homeowners are paying for the HOA&#039;s/board&#039;s attorneys, in addition to their own.

HOAs are like the facehugger from the movie &lt;i&gt;Alien&lt;/i&gt;:  any action against the parasite threatens the well-being of the host.

Yet libertarians and conservatives love HOAs more than they do individual private property rights for homeowners.  A web site called &quot;Overlawyered&quot; should have no shortage of HOA-related horror stories.   Yet Mr. Olson has curiously decided give one of the worst collectives of parasitic tort lawyers currently in existence a pass.

It&#039;s really sad that conservatism and libertarianism has descended from the noble ideas of individual liberty and freedom into a parody of corporatism (which is what HOAs are), to lead us down The Privatized Toll Road To Serfdom.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I said the wrong thing; what I meant was that they could sue<br />
&gt; the board members, not the HOA itself.</p>
<p>VMS is right.  In the HOA model of corporate government, board members tend to be indemnified &#8212; either you can&#8217;t sue them, or they have insurance which the homeowners are paying for.</p>
<p>And the homeowners are paying for the HOA&#8217;s/board&#8217;s attorneys, in addition to their own.</p>
<p>HOAs are like the facehugger from the movie <i>Alien</i>:  any action against the parasite threatens the well-being of the host.</p>
<p>Yet libertarians and conservatives love HOAs more than they do individual private property rights for homeowners.  A web site called &#8220;Overlawyered&#8221; should have no shortage of HOA-related horror stories.   Yet Mr. Olson has curiously decided give one of the worst collectives of parasitic tort lawyers currently in existence a pass.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really sad that conservatism and libertarianism has descended from the noble ideas of individual liberty and freedom into a parody of corporatism (which is what HOAs are), to lead us down The Privatized Toll Road To Serfdom.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DensityDuck		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109890</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DensityDuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 19:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109890</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@VMS:  I said the wrong thing; what I meant was that they could sue the &lt;i&gt;board members&lt;/i&gt;, not the HOA itself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@VMS:  I said the wrong thing; what I meant was that they could sue the <i>board members</i>, not the HOA itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Marty		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 17:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[HOAs: Of Morons, By Morons, For Morons.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HOAs: Of Morons, By Morons, For Morons.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: VMS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VMS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ DensityDuck

That&#039;s the equivalent of suing yourself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ DensityDuck</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the equivalent of suing yourself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: DensityDuck		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DensityDuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Seems to me that the homeowners could get together and countersue the HOA for poor management.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that the homeowners could get together and countersue the HOA for poor management.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Bill Poser		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109830</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Poser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109830</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, and they don&#039;t make it very clear that, if I understand correctly, when the lady moved in there was no ban on pets, so she comes off as a jerk who knew there was such a rule, moved in, then managed to get the rule overturned on a &quot;technicality&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and they don&#8217;t make it very clear that, if I understand correctly, when the lady moved in there was no ban on pets, so she comes off as a jerk who knew there was such a rule, moved in, then managed to get the rule overturned on a &#8220;technicality&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anthony		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2010/12/100k-battle-over-pet-in-condo/comment-page-1/#comment-109721</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anthony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=20491#comment-109721</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow, that&#039;s some pretty poor reporting on CBS&#039;s part. Most of the article makes it sound like the court decided it was OK for her to ignore the rule, starting with the headline (&quot;despite pets ban,…&quot;). Good job, CBS, on waiting until paragraph 6 to mention such trivialities as the rule not actually having been adopted.

I suggest that the next set of parties that want to spend $100k (well, more, presumably plaintiff had council as well) litigating something of questionable value instead donate it to CBS to put towards a competent newsroom.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s some pretty poor reporting on CBS&#8217;s part. Most of the article makes it sound like the court decided it was OK for her to ignore the rule, starting with the headline (&#8220;despite pets ban,…&#8221;). Good job, CBS, on waiting until paragraph 6 to mention such trivialities as the rule not actually having been adopted.</p>
<p>I suggest that the next set of parties that want to spend $100k (well, more, presumably plaintiff had council as well) litigating something of questionable value instead donate it to CBS to put towards a competent newsroom.</p>
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