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	Comments on: Martin/Zimmerman: the Murder Two rap	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:21:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: &#8220;We know only one category as prosecutors, and that is a &#8216;V.&#8217;&#8230;It’s &#8216;V,&#8217; for victim&#8221;.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150637</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;We know only one category as prosecutors, and that is a &#8216;V.&#8217;&#8230;It’s &#8216;V,&#8217; for victim&#8221;.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150637</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] guilt of George Zimmerman &#8212; against the code of ethics. Earlier on the prosecution affidavit here. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] guilt of George Zimmerman &#8212; against the code of ethics. Earlier on the prosecution affidavit here. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Defending People &#187; Blawg Review #317		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Defending People &#187; Blawg Review #317]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 03:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] its credit, been generally critical of the charge (links collected at Walter Olson, Overlawyered, Martin/Zimmerman: the Murder Two rap), and especially of the probable-cause affidavit (Ken, Popehat, How Not To Draft A Probable Cause [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] its credit, been generally critical of the charge (links collected at Walter Olson, Overlawyered, Martin/Zimmerman: the Murder Two rap), and especially of the probable-cause affidavit (Ken, Popehat, How Not To Draft A Probable Cause [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Schwartz		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150516</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Schwartz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150516</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fox 2: Any reasonable person in Zimmerman&#039;s position would have understood the operator&#039;s &quot;instructions&quot; to have motivated by concern for Zimmerman&#039;s safety and a fear of liability. He certainly had every right to follow Martin if he chose to, though that may not be the smartest thing he could have done. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin could have turned around and shot him before he would have had any chance to react.

What bothers me is the astounding number of conclusory statements in the affidavit with no factual basis documented in the affidavit: Zimmerman  &quot;assumed Martin was a criminal&quot;. Martin &quot;was profiled by&quot; Zimmerman. Zimmerman &quot;falsely assumed&quot; Martin was going to commit a crime. Zimmerman &quot;disregarded the police dispatcher&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fox 2: Any reasonable person in Zimmerman&#8217;s position would have understood the operator&#8217;s &#8220;instructions&#8221; to have motivated by concern for Zimmerman&#8217;s safety and a fear of liability. He certainly had every right to follow Martin if he chose to, though that may not be the smartest thing he could have done. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin could have turned around and shot him before he would have had any chance to react.</p>
<p>What bothers me is the astounding number of conclusory statements in the affidavit with no factual basis documented in the affidavit: Zimmerman  &#8220;assumed Martin was a criminal&#8221;. Martin &#8220;was profiled by&#8221; Zimmerman. Zimmerman &#8220;falsely assumed&#8221; Martin was going to commit a crime. Zimmerman &#8220;disregarded the police dispatcher&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fox 2!		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fox 2!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 03:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Does one have a positive obligation to obey the &quot;instructions&quot; of a 911 operator, who in most cases is not a sworn officer?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does one have a positive obligation to obey the &#8220;instructions&#8221; of a 911 operator, who in most cases is not a sworn officer?</p>
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		<title>
		By: mjs		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mjs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve read hundreds of affidavits in my career and this is one is weak on the facts, argumentative, and an embarrassment to the special prosecutor who nonetheless appeared to love the media attention.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read hundreds of affidavits in my career and this is one is weak on the facts, argumentative, and an embarrassment to the special prosecutor who nonetheless appeared to love the media attention.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sagae444		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150249</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sagae444]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150249</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zimmerman&#039;s brother said that Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he saw the suspicious looking person, and he was not doing a neighborhood watch patrol.  Zimmerman had a license to carry a gun.  

So, its a canard that the media has focused on the neighborhood watch thing.  He was no more on a neighborhood watch than I was the other day when my vacationing-in-Florida neighbor&#039;s alarm went off and I went outside to look.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimmerman&#8217;s brother said that Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he saw the suspicious looking person, and he was not doing a neighborhood watch patrol.  Zimmerman had a license to carry a gun.  </p>
<p>So, its a canard that the media has focused on the neighborhood watch thing.  He was no more on a neighborhood watch than I was the other day when my vacationing-in-Florida neighbor&#8217;s alarm went off and I went outside to look.</p>
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		<title>
		By: asdfasdf		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[asdfasdf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The 911 dispatcher&#039;s statement to Zimmerman that &quot;We don&#039;t need you to do that [follow Martin]&quot; somehow morphed into the affidavit&#039;s claim that Zimmerman was &quot;instructed not to follow&quot; Martin. 

There is no reasonable way to parse a statement &quot;We don&#039;t need you to do X&quot; as equivalent to &quot;do not do X.&quot; The statement &quot;We don&#039;t need you to do X&quot; means that it is not necessary to perform X, not that performing X is forbidden. Had the dispatcher wanted to instruct Zimmerman not to follow Martin, he would have used the simpler words &quot;Stop following him.&quot; 

Despite this rather elementary grammatical fact, the media has repeatedly claimed that Zimmerman was disobeying the dispatcher&#039;s instructions. The affiant, therefore, must not have been attesting to his own review of the evidence - he was just repeating the media take on the whole story. 

Kind of a clear sign the whole case is media-driven, not evidence-driven.

Affidavit: http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

Transcript: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 911 dispatcher&#8217;s statement to Zimmerman that &#8220;We don&#8217;t need you to do that [follow Martin]&#8221; somehow morphed into the affidavit&#8217;s claim that Zimmerman was &#8220;instructed not to follow&#8221; Martin. </p>
<p>There is no reasonable way to parse a statement &#8220;We don&#8217;t need you to do X&#8221; as equivalent to &#8220;do not do X.&#8221; The statement &#8220;We don&#8217;t need you to do X&#8221; means that it is not necessary to perform X, not that performing X is forbidden. Had the dispatcher wanted to instruct Zimmerman not to follow Martin, he would have used the simpler words &#8220;Stop following him.&#8221; </p>
<p>Despite this rather elementary grammatical fact, the media has repeatedly claimed that Zimmerman was disobeying the dispatcher&#8217;s instructions. The affiant, therefore, must not have been attesting to his own review of the evidence &#8211; he was just repeating the media take on the whole story. </p>
<p>Kind of a clear sign the whole case is media-driven, not evidence-driven.</p>
<p>Affidavit: <a href="http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf</a></p>
<p>Transcript: <a href="http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Hugo S. Cunningham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugo S. Cunningham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; demand to repeal all &quot;stand your ground&quot; laws, even in homes, will go nowhere, and those dependent exclusively on the NYT for US news will be utterly baffled at this country&#039;s perversity.  But are there other &quot;lessons [to be] learned&quot; from this tragedy?

How about standardized briefings for police departments to give to neighborhood watch leaders and members, covering such questions as rights to or prohibitions from:
carrying a gun, loaded or unloaded
using said gun
other rights of confrontation, or &quot;citizen&#039;s arrest&quot;?
Most SYG supporters assume that SYG is not a license to stalk someone and corner them, but what did Zimmerman believe?  

Each State&#039;s gun laws are different, so each State (and some local governments with distinct laws) should have its own distinctive briefing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <i>New York Times</i> demand to repeal all &#8220;stand your ground&#8221; laws, even in homes, will go nowhere, and those dependent exclusively on the NYT for US news will be utterly baffled at this country&#8217;s perversity.  But are there other &#8220;lessons [to be] learned&#8221; from this tragedy?</p>
<p>How about standardized briefings for police departments to give to neighborhood watch leaders and members, covering such questions as rights to or prohibitions from:<br />
carrying a gun, loaded or unloaded<br />
using said gun<br />
other rights of confrontation, or &#8220;citizen&#8217;s arrest&#8221;?<br />
Most SYG supporters assume that SYG is not a license to stalk someone and corner them, but what did Zimmerman believe?  </p>
<p>Each State&#8217;s gun laws are different, so each State (and some local governments with distinct laws) should have its own distinctive briefing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hugo S. Cunningham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugo S. Cunningham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Martin&#039;s mother claims that a voice caught on a phone recording screaming for help is her son&#039;s.  Jurors might have reasonable doubt (would a mother say otherwise?), and most likely there are no authenticated recordings of Martin available for comparison.  Zimmerman&#039;s defenders claim it is his voice.   Does the technology exist to either link or exclude Zimmerman&#039;s voice from the recording?  The conclusion would be morally decisive-- either he is a liar from beginning to end who deserves the murder charge, or he really was taken by surprise and deserves a reduction in charge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin&#8217;s mother claims that a voice caught on a phone recording screaming for help is her son&#8217;s.  Jurors might have reasonable doubt (would a mother say otherwise?), and most likely there are no authenticated recordings of Martin available for comparison.  Zimmerman&#8217;s defenders claim it is his voice.   Does the technology exist to either link or exclude Zimmerman&#8217;s voice from the recording?  The conclusion would be morally decisive&#8211; either he is a liar from beginning to end who deserves the murder charge, or he really was taken by surprise and deserves a reduction in charge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BB		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/04/martinzimmerman-the-murder-two-rap/comment-page-1/#comment-150199</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=28947#comment-150199</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My one question for an attorney - we keep hearing about an affidavit from Trayvon&#039;s girlfriend who signed a statement saying what she heard on the phone.  Wouldn&#039;t it be wise for the Defense team to try and get that statement and any testimony from her declared inadmissible?  You have no idea what is going on in a situation based on listening on the phone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My one question for an attorney &#8211; we keep hearing about an affidavit from Trayvon&#8217;s girlfriend who signed a statement saying what she heard on the phone.  Wouldn&#8217;t it be wise for the Defense team to try and get that statement and any testimony from her declared inadmissible?  You have no idea what is going on in a situation based on listening on the phone.</p>
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