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	Comments on: &#8220;He couldn&#8217;t prove it was legitimate&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:34:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Civil Asset Forfeiture and the &#8220;Piratical&#8221; State &#124; Cato @ Liberty		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158442</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Civil Asset Forfeiture and the &#8220;Piratical&#8221; State &#124; Cato @ Liberty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158442</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Nashville&#8217;s WTVF exposed a pattern in which some rural Tennessee police agencies stop out-of-state motorists and then seize any large [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Nashville&#8217;s WTVF exposed a pattern in which some rural Tennessee police agencies stop out-of-state motorists and then seize any large [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: MF		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158438</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 16:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158438</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The bottom line is that if I am detained by the police, I will fully and (hopefully) cheerfully  cooperate in any way I can - up to but not crossing the point of relinquishing any of my rights.  &quot;I&#039;m sorry, officer, but that would be giving up my rights, and I cannot do that in good conscience.&quot;  That is the only sensible position to take.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line is that if I am detained by the police, I will fully and (hopefully) cheerfully  cooperate in any way I can &#8211; up to but not crossing the point of relinquishing any of my rights.  &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry, officer, but that would be giving up my rights, and I cannot do that in good conscience.&#8221;  That is the only sensible position to take.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 15:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron,

Wow.  Sarcasm.  

Let&#039;s review, shall we?  You claim the police in TN had no financial incentive to seize the money.  When the law is shown to you, you ignore it and rest on the idea that the police would never do anything corrupt.  

When the &quot;no corruption&quot; idea is challenged with the massive corruption in your area, you claim that it doesn&#039;t matter to you and that you aren&#039;t a spokesman for the police.  Of course, that is simply disingenuous because no one was asking you to be a spokesman for the police, but rather the actions of the BCPD are contrary to your opinion.

Now you want to come in and change the subject again.  Fine by me.  You say (and I will quote directly from you)  &lt;em&gt;&quot;If the police are trying to get you, they are going to get you. &lt;/em&gt;

Most people will see that as an acknowledgement  of the very police corruption you maintain doesn&#039;t exist.  Somehow I suspect you won&#039;t.

The problem is not &quot;wild tangents,&quot; Ron.  The problem is that you have refused to respond to anything that is factually against your perceived notions. 

 Only you can take off your blinders.

And with that, I am done in this thread.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>Wow.  Sarcasm.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s review, shall we?  You claim the police in TN had no financial incentive to seize the money.  When the law is shown to you, you ignore it and rest on the idea that the police would never do anything corrupt.  </p>
<p>When the &#8220;no corruption&#8221; idea is challenged with the massive corruption in your area, you claim that it doesn&#8217;t matter to you and that you aren&#8217;t a spokesman for the police.  Of course, that is simply disingenuous because no one was asking you to be a spokesman for the police, but rather the actions of the BCPD are contrary to your opinion.</p>
<p>Now you want to come in and change the subject again.  Fine by me.  You say (and I will quote directly from you)  <em>&#8220;If the police are trying to get you, they are going to get you. </em></p>
<p>Most people will see that as an acknowledgement  of the very police corruption you maintain doesn&#8217;t exist.  Somehow I suspect you won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The problem is not &#8220;wild tangents,&#8221; Ron.  The problem is that you have refused to respond to anything that is factually against your perceived notions. </p>
<p> Only you can take off your blinders.</p>
<p>And with that, I am done in this thread.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 14:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think you did a good job of reading between the lines again Gitcarver.  Everything I&#039;ve been saying has been with the motive of defending the Baltimore police on St. Patrick&#039;s Day at the Inner Harbor.   That is what this whole thing has been about.  Checkmate.  Well played, my friend.

I&#039;m not reading this &quot;reports after reports.&quot; If they exist on level that does not make sense for a nation of this size and I saw them what would I do?  Probably the exact same thing.  If the police are trying to get you, they are going to get you.  If a police officer is up to know good, I stayed half awake enough in Criminal Law to know that a police officer can easily make up probable cause.  I think you are better off playing ball.

By the way, David, I&#039;m mocking Gitacarver a little bit because he&#039;s going off on wild tangents.  I have no arrogance, however, about the position I&#039;m taking with you.  I might be wrong.  I really don&#039;t know.  But my philosophy - which has changed since my youth - is when in doubt to cooperate, show good faith, and hope the chips fall in the right place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you did a good job of reading between the lines again Gitcarver.  Everything I&#8217;ve been saying has been with the motive of defending the Baltimore police on St. Patrick&#8217;s Day at the Inner Harbor.   That is what this whole thing has been about.  Checkmate.  Well played, my friend.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not reading this &#8220;reports after reports.&#8221; If they exist on level that does not make sense for a nation of this size and I saw them what would I do?  Probably the exact same thing.  If the police are trying to get you, they are going to get you.  If a police officer is up to know good, I stayed half awake enough in Criminal Law to know that a police officer can easily make up probable cause.  I think you are better off playing ball.</p>
<p>By the way, David, I&#8217;m mocking Gitacarver a little bit because he&#8217;s going off on wild tangents.  I have no arrogance, however, about the position I&#8217;m taking with you.  I might be wrong.  I really don&#8217;t know.  But my philosophy &#8211; which has changed since my youth &#8211; is when in doubt to cooperate, show good faith, and hope the chips fall in the right place.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Schwartz		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158415</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Schwartz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 03:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158415</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron: I cannot imagine what possible benefit there could be to letting the police search your car if you have done nothing wrong. How many bad outcomes would it take to change your world view? Because there is report after report of people who cooperated with the police to their detriment. And, in any event, if the advice only applies if you know you&#039;ve done nothing wrong, then I submit that it *never* applies.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron: I cannot imagine what possible benefit there could be to letting the police search your car if you have done nothing wrong. How many bad outcomes would it take to change your world view? Because there is report after report of people who cooperated with the police to their detriment. And, in any event, if the advice only applies if you know you&#8217;ve done nothing wrong, then I submit that it *never* applies.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 01:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron,

With all due respect, I am not following your &quot;logic&quot; because I find there is no logic to be found.  I find it against all logic and experience that you believe the police do not have a financial motivation to seize money and property that  comes back to them in the form of new toys.

Frankly, I don&#039;t care whether you work for the Baltimore police or not.  That is not the issue.  The issue is that the BPD is full of corruption which has been proven in court, and now is facing more questions on how it handled the St Patrick&#039;s Day incident at the Inner Harbor.  If you think that was &quot;a good job,&quot; we have nothing further to talk about as I don&#039;t think the police not protecting people or property, and then lying about the incident is a &quot;good job.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>With all due respect, I am not following your &#8220;logic&#8221; because I find there is no logic to be found.  I find it against all logic and experience that you believe the police do not have a financial motivation to seize money and property that  comes back to them in the form of new toys.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t care whether you work for the Baltimore police or not.  That is not the issue.  The issue is that the BPD is full of corruption which has been proven in court, and now is facing more questions on how it handled the St Patrick&#8217;s Day incident at the Inner Harbor.  If you think that was &#8220;a good job,&#8221; we have nothing further to talk about as I don&#8217;t think the police not protecting people or property, and then lying about the incident is a &#8220;good job.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158398</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 16:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158398</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gitacarver, I misread what you said.   And I don&#039;t think you follow my logic about the motivations of for profit and not for profit.   Can you tell me what you do for a living ?  You told us all once but I forgot.  (Also, I don&#039;t work for the Baltimore City police and I&#039;m not the spokesperson for them.  I do think most BC cops are working hard and doing a great job.  I appreciate them.)

David, I try not to let a report of one bad outcome change my world view.   It is a country of 311 million people.   Lots of crazy things are going to happen.  Columbine happened but I still send me kids to school.  My point is that even though bad things can happen by being cooperative, it is generally the best play.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gitacarver, I misread what you said.   And I don&#8217;t think you follow my logic about the motivations of for profit and not for profit.   Can you tell me what you do for a living ?  You told us all once but I forgot.  (Also, I don&#8217;t work for the Baltimore City police and I&#8217;m not the spokesperson for them.  I do think most BC cops are working hard and doing a great job.  I appreciate them.)</p>
<p>David, I try not to let a report of one bad outcome change my world view.   It is a country of 311 million people.   Lots of crazy things are going to happen.  Columbine happened but I still send me kids to school.  My point is that even though bad things can happen by being cooperative, it is generally the best play.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Schwartz		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158317</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Schwartz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 03:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158317</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron: I don&#039;t understand how you can think it sensible to respond to a story about a man who has done nothing wrong yet lost $22,000 because he let police search his car by saying it&#039;s a good idea to let police search your car if you&#039;ve done nothing wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron: I don&#8217;t understand how you can think it sensible to respond to a story about a man who has done nothing wrong yet lost $22,000 because he let police search his car by saying it&#8217;s a good idea to let police search your car if you&#8217;ve done nothing wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 22:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron, 

In some ways, you crossed a line here.  

&lt;i&gt;You conceded this when you said “unless you work for a nonprofit.”&lt;/i&gt;

One problem.  I never said that which is in quotes.   I am at a loss as to why you would attribute something to me which I did not say.

Secondly, while a non-profit or government does not have an focus on maximizing &quot;profits,&quot; they do focus on maximizing &lt;b&gt;income.&lt;/b&gt; 

&lt;i&gt;If that ever happens, it is the exception rather than the rule. &lt;/i&gt;

You mean &quot;ever happens&quot; as in the very case we are talking about?

&lt;i&gt;Why? Are police as a class bad people?&lt;/i&gt;

I believe police act like many people who are in positions of power and have a lack of accountability.  

I noticed that you failed to address the corruption of the Baltimore City Police Department.  Where the officers that are now residing in jail just &quot;misguided angled who fell from grace?&quot;  Or how about the fact that the BP has been under reporting crimes to make it seem they are doing a better job than they are?  

To have different views of the world, you first need to take off the blinders.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, </p>
<p>In some ways, you crossed a line here.  </p>
<p><i>You conceded this when you said “unless you work for a nonprofit.”</i></p>
<p>One problem.  I never said that which is in quotes.   I am at a loss as to why you would attribute something to me which I did not say.</p>
<p>Secondly, while a non-profit or government does not have an focus on maximizing &#8220;profits,&#8221; they do focus on maximizing <b>income.</b> </p>
<p><i>If that ever happens, it is the exception rather than the rule. </i></p>
<p>You mean &#8220;ever happens&#8221; as in the very case we are talking about?</p>
<p><i>Why? Are police as a class bad people?</i></p>
<p>I believe police act like many people who are in positions of power and have a lack of accountability.  </p>
<p>I noticed that you failed to address the corruption of the Baltimore City Police Department.  Where the officers that are now residing in jail just &#8220;misguided angled who fell from grace?&#8221;  Or how about the fact that the BP has been under reporting crimes to make it seem they are doing a better job than they are?  </p>
<p>To have different views of the world, you first need to take off the blinders.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/05/he-couldnt-prove-it-was-legitimate/comment-page-1/#comment-158295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 18:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=29755#comment-158295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gitacarver, do you think we should have more big government?  No?  Why not?  Because it is inefficient.  This is, in large measure, due to the lack of motivation nonprofits have to maximize profits.  You conceded this when you said &quot;unless you work for a nonprofit.&quot;  A police force and a municipality is a nonprofit.  I don&#039;t think most cops in that situation are getting atta boys from above.  &quot;Good job, you brought in some money, I don&#039;t care if you got it immorally.&quot;  If that ever happens, it is the exception rather than the rule.  You think the police are just looking our for themselves.  Why?  Are police as a class bad people?  Or do you think it is just all people? I have a different world view.  

MF, I get your point.  I just disagree.   I wish people would do more to cooperate with police and be less obstructionist with them for no good reason.  Does that cooperation sometimes get punished?  Sure.  I think for people who are doing what they should be doing, it is rare and making the jobs easier of those trying to protect us it is an effective trade off.  But I definitely don&#039;t begrudge you for taking whatever course you want under the law.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gitacarver, do you think we should have more big government?  No?  Why not?  Because it is inefficient.  This is, in large measure, due to the lack of motivation nonprofits have to maximize profits.  You conceded this when you said &#8220;unless you work for a nonprofit.&#8221;  A police force and a municipality is a nonprofit.  I don&#8217;t think most cops in that situation are getting atta boys from above.  &#8220;Good job, you brought in some money, I don&#8217;t care if you got it immorally.&#8221;  If that ever happens, it is the exception rather than the rule.  You think the police are just looking our for themselves.  Why?  Are police as a class bad people?  Or do you think it is just all people? I have a different world view.  </p>
<p>MF, I get your point.  I just disagree.   I wish people would do more to cooperate with police and be less obstructionist with them for no good reason.  Does that cooperation sometimes get punished?  Sure.  I think for people who are doing what they should be doing, it is rare and making the jobs easier of those trying to protect us it is an effective trade off.  But I definitely don&#8217;t begrudge you for taking whatever course you want under the law.</p>
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