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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;We&#8217;re not going to protect you&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 23:21:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-171357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 23:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-171357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have a combined 32 years in law enforcment and the fire service. Started the police academy when I was 21.  Eventualy found that I wanted to move to the fire service.  I am all for preserving individual rights and could not be more opposed to gun control laws.  Speaking from personal experience the police cannot be everywhere at all times and citizens deserve the right to protect themselves until help can arrive.  However, comparing laws to prevent public safety working from striking to slavery is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.  We all know why these types of laws are enacted so deep explanation is not needed.  If all public saftey personell decided to just not show up all at once it puts the public in an unacceptable situation.  Yes any particular individual has the right to decide &quot; I no longer wish to do this job based on pay, danger, hours, or whatever else.&quot;  To have all employees walk away en masse and leave an entire community unprotected is a completely different situation.  There comes a time when a distinction has to be made between what &quot;individual rights&quot; you can work the system for and doing what IS right.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a combined 32 years in law enforcment and the fire service. Started the police academy when I was 21.  Eventualy found that I wanted to move to the fire service.  I am all for preserving individual rights and could not be more opposed to gun control laws.  Speaking from personal experience the police cannot be everywhere at all times and citizens deserve the right to protect themselves until help can arrive.  However, comparing laws to prevent public safety working from striking to slavery is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.  We all know why these types of laws are enacted so deep explanation is not needed.  If all public saftey personell decided to just not show up all at once it puts the public in an unacceptable situation.  Yes any particular individual has the right to decide &#8221; I no longer wish to do this job based on pay, danger, hours, or whatever else.&#8221;  To have all employees walk away en masse and leave an entire community unprotected is a completely different situation.  There comes a time when a distinction has to be made between what &#8220;individual rights&#8221; you can work the system for and doing what IS right.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hugo S. Cunningham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-171187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugo S. Cunningham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 01:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-171187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some Libertarians have invoked the Thirteenth Amendment to oppose the Military draft, but NYC policemen have not been drafted.

Those who ratified the Thirteenth Amendment expressed no interest in annulling Congress&#039;s authority to &quot;raise and support armies,&quot; recently invoked to win the War to preserve the Union.  Draftees retain the social status of free men, even if constrained to pay a temporary tax in labor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Libertarians have invoked the Thirteenth Amendment to oppose the Military draft, but NYC policemen have not been drafted.</p>
<p>Those who ratified the Thirteenth Amendment expressed no interest in annulling Congress&#8217;s authority to &#8220;raise and support armies,&#8221; recently invoked to win the War to preserve the Union.  Draftees retain the social status of free men, even if constrained to pay a temporary tax in labor.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fox 2!		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-171140</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fox 2!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-171140</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In addition, police officers face Departmental discipline, such as fines, suspensions without pay, and even dismissal, for participating in strikes. I&#039;m sure that the FDNY and Sanitation have similar regulations.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition, police officers face Departmental discipline, such as fines, suspensions without pay, and even dismissal, for participating in strikes. I&#8217;m sure that the FDNY and Sanitation have similar regulations.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fox 2!		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-171139</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fox 2!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-171139</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The leaders of NYC  public employee unions have ended up in Riker&#039;s Island (or in the County House of Detention) on more than one occasion for striking in violation of the Taylor Act. And the unions and their members have been fined millions of dollars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The leaders of NYC  public employee unions have ended up in Riker&#8217;s Island (or in the County House of Detention) on more than one occasion for striking in violation of the Taylor Act. And the unions and their members have been fined millions of dollars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Nicholas		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170951</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Nicholas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 21:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170951</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m aware of the statute, but I didn&#039;t realize that any conservative person would ever consider it part of &quot;The Law&quot;. Unconstitutional statutes, of course, as we all know, are not part of The Law. I doubt that any court would ever jail a person for failing to show up to work. If that happened to me, I&#039;d challenge the law under the 13th Amendment, and I admonish your position as an apology for slavery. Conservatives protect individual liberty; conservatives oppose slavery; conservatives support free speech; therefore conservatives support the right to strike for all people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m aware of the statute, but I didn&#8217;t realize that any conservative person would ever consider it part of &#8220;The Law&#8221;. Unconstitutional statutes, of course, as we all know, are not part of The Law. I doubt that any court would ever jail a person for failing to show up to work. If that happened to me, I&#8217;d challenge the law under the 13th Amendment, and I admonish your position as an apology for slavery. Conservatives protect individual liberty; conservatives oppose slavery; conservatives support free speech; therefore conservatives support the right to strike for all people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Nieporent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170828</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Nieporent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 05:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170828</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; Richard, “crimes” are things you can be arrested for. Are you seriously suggesting that we should arrest people who don’t go to work? I have to assume you don’t mean that, and just stated your position inartfully. If you really do mean that, then again I’d ask who are you going to send to arrest these policemen who don’t show up to work?&lt;/I&gt;

No, Anonymous Nicholas, I mean exactly what I stated. Many jurisdictions prohibit all strikes by public employees, under laws such as the &quot;Taylor Law&quot; in New York.  &quot;The Taylor Law is a New York State statute which authorizes a governor-appointed State Public Employment Relations Board to resolve contract disputes for public employees while curtailing their right to strike. The law provides for mediation and binding arbitration to give voice to unions, &lt;b&gt;while work stoppages are made punishable with fines and jail time&lt;/b&gt;. &quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Law

So yes it is a crime for police to strike in NYC and they can be fined or go to jail for doing it. If necessary, the Governor would call out the National Guard to preserve order.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Richard, “crimes” are things you can be arrested for. Are you seriously suggesting that we should arrest people who don’t go to work? I have to assume you don’t mean that, and just stated your position inartfully. If you really do mean that, then again I’d ask who are you going to send to arrest these policemen who don’t show up to work?</i></p>
<p>No, Anonymous Nicholas, I mean exactly what I stated. Many jurisdictions prohibit all strikes by public employees, under laws such as the &#8220;Taylor Law&#8221; in New York.  &#8220;The Taylor Law is a New York State statute which authorizes a governor-appointed State Public Employment Relations Board to resolve contract disputes for public employees while curtailing their right to strike. The law provides for mediation and binding arbitration to give voice to unions, <b>while work stoppages are made punishable with fines and jail time</b>. &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Law" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Law</a></p>
<p>So yes it is a crime for police to strike in NYC and they can be fined or go to jail for doing it. If necessary, the Governor would call out the National Guard to preserve order.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Nicholas		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170764</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Nicholas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170764</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard, &quot;crimes&quot; are things you can be arrested for. Are you seriously suggesting that we should arrest people who don&#039;t go to work? I have to assume you don&#039;t mean that, and just stated your position inartfully. If you really do mean that, then again I&#039;d ask who are you going to send to arrest these policemen who don&#039;t show up to work?

If police struck because politicians refused to do anything about a gun problem, that wouldn&#039;t be &quot;deciding national policy&quot;, that would be &quot;engaging in the civic discussion about national policy&quot;. Surely you wouldn&#039;t deny the good men and women in blue of their free speech, so you also can&#039;t possibly mean that they should be disallowed from voicing that opinion.

I thought this was a hangout for conservatives. You guys aren&#039;t sounding very conservative about this issue. Conservatives don&#039;t turn people into slaves by forcing them to work, nor do they tell people they don&#039;t have the right to express political opinions. Leave that nonsense to the pinkos.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, &#8220;crimes&#8221; are things you can be arrested for. Are you seriously suggesting that we should arrest people who don&#8217;t go to work? I have to assume you don&#8217;t mean that, and just stated your position inartfully. If you really do mean that, then again I&#8217;d ask who are you going to send to arrest these policemen who don&#8217;t show up to work?</p>
<p>If police struck because politicians refused to do anything about a gun problem, that wouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;deciding national policy&#8221;, that would be &#8220;engaging in the civic discussion about national policy&#8221;. Surely you wouldn&#8217;t deny the good men and women in blue of their free speech, so you also can&#8217;t possibly mean that they should be disallowed from voicing that opinion.</p>
<p>I thought this was a hangout for conservatives. You guys aren&#8217;t sounding very conservative about this issue. Conservatives don&#8217;t turn people into slaves by forcing them to work, nor do they tell people they don&#8217;t have the right to express political opinions. Leave that nonsense to the pinkos.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Nieporent		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Nieporent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nicholas, the police have a right to negotiate their working conditions such as pay, the number of hours they work, vacation time, pension, etc.; they do not have a the right to decide public policy. Nobody is forced to be a policeman. If the police do not like the fact that they have to deal with armed criminals they can always quit their jobs and go into another profession. 

It should not be a surprise to the police that law-abiding citizens can own weapons. Gun control only succeeds in disarming law-abiding citizens. Unfortunately criminals don’t seem to have a problem obtaining weapons even in places that have strict gun control laws. 

Bloomberg should stick to banning Big Gulps. Then he will only be seen as a fool. When he encourages the police to strike illegally he is advocating criminal behavior.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicholas, the police have a right to negotiate their working conditions such as pay, the number of hours they work, vacation time, pension, etc.; they do not have a the right to decide public policy. Nobody is forced to be a policeman. If the police do not like the fact that they have to deal with armed criminals they can always quit their jobs and go into another profession. </p>
<p>It should not be a surprise to the police that law-abiding citizens can own weapons. Gun control only succeeds in disarming law-abiding citizens. Unfortunately criminals don’t seem to have a problem obtaining weapons even in places that have strict gun control laws. </p>
<p>Bloomberg should stick to banning Big Gulps. Then he will only be seen as a fool. When he encourages the police to strike illegally he is advocating criminal behavior.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AN&gt;&quot;A strike is the same as quitting...&quot;

I am sorry that the last 75+ years (at least) of labor law in the U.S., as well as the last 100+ years of actual labor relations, have been lost on you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AN>&#8221;A strike is the same as quitting&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I am sorry that the last 75+ years (at least) of labor law in the U.S., as well as the last 100+ years of actual labor relations, have been lost on you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous Nicholas		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/07/were-going-protect-you/comment-page-1/#comment-170565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous Nicholas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=31574#comment-170565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Walter, what punishment do you suggest for a police officer who decides that his job isn&#039;t worth working until something changes? Who would you send to seize that person and force him to be a police officer that day? How many days in a row would you force that person to work, before it would become slavery?

A strike is the same as quitting and then offering to come back when the situation is fixed. Would you rather live in a world where all the police in the country just decide to quit and NOT offer to come back when you fix the problem?

For the record, I don&#039;t support increased gun control, and I don&#039;t really follow the logic of Bloomberg&#039;s statement. I think he&#039;s just advocating for his position at an opportune time, which is fair politics, and I think the conservative response has been hypocritical bluster and nonsense -- unfair politics. The appropriate conservative response is &quot;we disagree with Bloomberg that America wants or needs more gun control, and we are proud to count as citizen gun owners many of America&#039;s fine police officers, who can decide for themselves when and why to strike.&quot;

(I may be anonymous to your readers, but you have my real email address, so I&#039;m not anonymous to you. You can easily write to me or look me up.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walter, what punishment do you suggest for a police officer who decides that his job isn&#8217;t worth working until something changes? Who would you send to seize that person and force him to be a police officer that day? How many days in a row would you force that person to work, before it would become slavery?</p>
<p>A strike is the same as quitting and then offering to come back when the situation is fixed. Would you rather live in a world where all the police in the country just decide to quit and NOT offer to come back when you fix the problem?</p>
<p>For the record, I don&#8217;t support increased gun control, and I don&#8217;t really follow the logic of Bloomberg&#8217;s statement. I think he&#8217;s just advocating for his position at an opportune time, which is fair politics, and I think the conservative response has been hypocritical bluster and nonsense &#8212; unfair politics. The appropriate conservative response is &#8220;we disagree with Bloomberg that America wants or needs more gun control, and we are proud to count as citizen gun owners many of America&#8217;s fine police officers, who can decide for themselves when and why to strike.&#8221;</p>
<p>(I may be anonymous to your readers, but you have my real email address, so I&#8217;m not anonymous to you. You can easily write to me or look me up.)</p>
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