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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;Deaf girl&#8217;s family sues Girl Scouts for disbanding troop&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:50:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kids don&#039;t accommodate friends?   What in the world are you talking about?  

That little girl might go to a better school than USC and be more successful than your accountant friend whose Daddy handed him the business.  And that kid could hear anyway.  Your anecdote is worse than useless.  Talk about being a prisoner of your limited experience.   

It is the freaking girl scouts.  They should have found a way to work with the parents.  Reasonable people would have found a solution that would have cost nothing with all of the technology we have in 2012.   I&#039;ve said earlier I&#039;m betting the parents were not reasonable based on just a hunch on the limited evidence we have.  I also would not be surprised if the girl scouts were pretty inflexible in the way they approached these (maybe) difficult parents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kids don&#8217;t accommodate friends?   What in the world are you talking about?  </p>
<p>That little girl might go to a better school than USC and be more successful than your accountant friend whose Daddy handed him the business.  And that kid could hear anyway.  Your anecdote is worse than useless.  Talk about being a prisoner of your limited experience.   </p>
<p>It is the freaking girl scouts.  They should have found a way to work with the parents.  Reasonable people would have found a solution that would have cost nothing with all of the technology we have in 2012.   I&#8217;ve said earlier I&#8217;m betting the parents were not reasonable based on just a hunch on the limited evidence we have.  I also would not be surprised if the girl scouts were pretty inflexible in the way they approached these (maybe) difficult parents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Carol Herman		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172374</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carol Herman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 02:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172374</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The lawsuit is way out of place, here!  These kids were a troop, together, starting in kindergarten!  When the age of 12 is reached ... the parents, together, decided it was time to disband this troop.

Kids don&#039;t &quot;accommodate&quot; friends.  They make friendships.  And, in this case?  The lawsuit pretty much demonstrates a parent who is using her kid&#039;s deafness ... to create a &quot;bind.&quot;  

Do the other parents have to come up with a wheelchair?  

Where does it stop?

It&#039;s a VOLUNTEER PROGRAM for kids.  And, because of the costs associated with one &quot;deaf since birth&quot; girl ... who has not learned to lip read ... shows ya her parents aren&#039;t too concerned about her handicap to give her the skills she needed to get by in a hearing world.

My accountant is deaf.  He went to USC.  He has no trouble reading lips.  And, he has no trouble now taking over his dad&#039;s lucrative firm.

I met him when he was a kid.  And, his dad was my accountant.  He came into the office, on he had on his belt, in the back, heavy duty batteries that enabled him to hear.

That&#039;s what&#039;s missing for this 12 year old girl!

When the troop dissolved?  Whatever friendships had been built over time, went out the window.

Why?  Because people don&#039;t like getting their pockets picked.

And, being in the Girl Scouts is more than just selling cookies.  And, earning badges.

The deaf kid&#039;s parents should be ashamed!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lawsuit is way out of place, here!  These kids were a troop, together, starting in kindergarten!  When the age of 12 is reached &#8230; the parents, together, decided it was time to disband this troop.</p>
<p>Kids don&#8217;t &#8220;accommodate&#8221; friends.  They make friendships.  And, in this case?  The lawsuit pretty much demonstrates a parent who is using her kid&#8217;s deafness &#8230; to create a &#8220;bind.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Do the other parents have to come up with a wheelchair?  </p>
<p>Where does it stop?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a VOLUNTEER PROGRAM for kids.  And, because of the costs associated with one &#8220;deaf since birth&#8221; girl &#8230; who has not learned to lip read &#8230; shows ya her parents aren&#8217;t too concerned about her handicap to give her the skills she needed to get by in a hearing world.</p>
<p>My accountant is deaf.  He went to USC.  He has no trouble reading lips.  And, he has no trouble now taking over his dad&#8217;s lucrative firm.</p>
<p>I met him when he was a kid.  And, his dad was my accountant.  He came into the office, on he had on his belt, in the back, heavy duty batteries that enabled him to hear.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what&#8217;s missing for this 12 year old girl!</p>
<p>When the troop dissolved?  Whatever friendships had been built over time, went out the window.</p>
<p>Why?  Because people don&#8217;t like getting their pockets picked.</p>
<p>And, being in the Girl Scouts is more than just selling cookies.  And, earning badges.</p>
<p>The deaf kid&#8217;s parents should be ashamed!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Melvin, you need to respond to what people actually write as opposed to what you think they write.  Where do I suggest the &quot;reasonable accomodation&quot; should be the most expensive option imaginable?  I don&#039;t say it and I don&#039;t suggest it.  If the parents were reasonable people and the girl scouts really wanted to help, I think they could find something that would work that would cost an estimated $0.00 cents.

As for the Internet rules, I was making a joke.  Every single person who read that knew that it was a joke (I guess except you).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melvin, you need to respond to what people actually write as opposed to what you think they write.  Where do I suggest the &#8220;reasonable accomodation&#8221; should be the most expensive option imaginable?  I don&#8217;t say it and I don&#8217;t suggest it.  If the parents were reasonable people and the girl scouts really wanted to help, I think they could find something that would work that would cost an estimated $0.00 cents.</p>
<p>As for the Internet rules, I was making a joke.  Every single person who read that knew that it was a joke (I guess except you).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Smith (Really!)		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172317</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Smith (Really!)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2012 03:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172317</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a deaf interpreter for over 30 years, I bring a differet perspective.  First, paying for a deaf interpreter is a non-starter.  The assets of the GSA are finite.  Therefore, they must be spent in a manner that is beneficial to the largest number of girls.  Spending $5,000+ on something that will benefit a single girl would be unfair to those other girls that were not deaf.    The reality is that this is an issue that the parents should have considered before she joined the scouts.  They have no right to impose the cost of an interpreter on the parents of the other girls.  And let&#039;s be clear:  it is the parents of the other girls that will pay for an interpreter. While the obvious solution is for one of the parents to act as an interpreter, apparently they are unwilling to do so, or are unwilling to do so further.  Another solution that came to me is for the GSA to offer levels of merit badges for increasing skill level of deaf interpreting.  I can&#039;t believe that this is the first young lady to come to the scouts that was deaf.  For the economic geek wannabes, this is a classic example of Bastiat&#039;s &quot;Unseen Man.&quot;  Money spent on the interpreter for the one girl is money not spent for the other -unseen- girls.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a deaf interpreter for over 30 years, I bring a differet perspective.  First, paying for a deaf interpreter is a non-starter.  The assets of the GSA are finite.  Therefore, they must be spent in a manner that is beneficial to the largest number of girls.  Spending $5,000+ on something that will benefit a single girl would be unfair to those other girls that were not deaf.    The reality is that this is an issue that the parents should have considered before she joined the scouts.  They have no right to impose the cost of an interpreter on the parents of the other girls.  And let&#8217;s be clear:  it is the parents of the other girls that will pay for an interpreter. While the obvious solution is for one of the parents to act as an interpreter, apparently they are unwilling to do so, or are unwilling to do so further.  Another solution that came to me is for the GSA to offer levels of merit badges for increasing skill level of deaf interpreting.  I can&#8217;t believe that this is the first young lady to come to the scouts that was deaf.  For the economic geek wannabes, this is a classic example of Bastiat&#8217;s &#8220;Unseen Man.&#8221;  Money spent on the interpreter for the one girl is money not spent for the other -unseen- girls.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Carol Herman		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172279</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carol Herman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 03:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172279</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To disband the whole troop was a matter that a majority of the parent volunteers decided was the best course!  The girls have been part of the Girl Scouts since kindergarten!  And GSA did &quot;accommodate&quot; the deaf child.  

Then?  Costs became prohibitive.

This is not the first troop to find itself facing financial shortfalls.

And, ALL THE GIRLS have been told that the Girl Scouting activities in their lives is over.

So, now the deaf girl&#039;s parents sue?  Whom are they suing?  Why the Girl Scouts of America, of course!

Wouldn&#039;t this whack any friendship that might have grown between some of the girls?  

Plus, how come this child who has been deaf since birth ... cannot read lips?  

What if the girls who belonged to the troop &quot;outgrew&quot; their participation?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To disband the whole troop was a matter that a majority of the parent volunteers decided was the best course!  The girls have been part of the Girl Scouts since kindergarten!  And GSA did &#8220;accommodate&#8221; the deaf child.  </p>
<p>Then?  Costs became prohibitive.</p>
<p>This is not the first troop to find itself facing financial shortfalls.</p>
<p>And, ALL THE GIRLS have been told that the Girl Scouting activities in their lives is over.</p>
<p>So, now the deaf girl&#8217;s parents sue?  Whom are they suing?  Why the Girl Scouts of America, of course!</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t this whack any friendship that might have grown between some of the girls?  </p>
<p>Plus, how come this child who has been deaf since birth &#8230; cannot read lips?  </p>
<p>What if the girls who belonged to the troop &#8220;outgrew&#8221; their participation?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Melvin H.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172278</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melvin H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 02:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172278</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I ask Mr. Olson for forgiveness on multiple consecutive posts...but I believe I found the answer:   According to the Girl Scouts&#039; national website FAQ&#039;s:   The cost of a box varies by council, between $3.50-5.00--with 10-20% of that going to the troop itself, or between 35-70 cents per box.

That means, to finish my post two posts back:  The number of boxes to cover $7,630.00 in costs would be in the range of &lt;b&gt;7,630 (@ $1.00/box) to 21,800 (@ $0.35/box) boxes, &lt;/b&gt;at a minimum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ask Mr. Olson for forgiveness on multiple consecutive posts&#8230;but I believe I found the answer:   According to the Girl Scouts&#8217; national website FAQ&#8217;s:   The cost of a box varies by council, between $3.50-5.00&#8211;with 10-20% of that going to the troop itself, or between 35-70 cents per box.</p>
<p>That means, to finish my post two posts back:  The number of boxes to cover $7,630.00 in costs would be in the range of <b>7,630 (@ $1.00/box) to 21,800 (@ $0.35/box) boxes, </b>at a minimum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Melvin H.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172277</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melvin H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 02:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172277</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron Miller, one last thing:  Where is this &quot;Internet Rule 424.25(b)&quot; from, and where are Internet Rules 1 through 424 (and 426+)?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Miller, one last thing:  Where is this &#8220;Internet Rule 424.25(b)&#8221; from, and where are Internet Rules 1 through 424 (and 426+)?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Melvin H.		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172276</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melvin H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 02:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172276</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK, Ron, a little math here:  
According to the Tribune article, the cost of an interpreter in that area  is $55-60 per hour with a two-hour minimum, possibly more on weekends.  If you assume the troop meets every week for the year, that is:

&lt;i&gt; 52 weeks x $110 per week = &lt;/i&gt;&lt;b&gt;$5,720.00&lt;/b&gt;

and that is &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt;&lt;b&gt; any&lt;/b&gt; weekends, outings, cookie sales at grocery stores, Girl Scout Roundup&#039;s, etc.  If the total time from those, for example, is approximately another 1/3 more hours, now you&#039;re looking at an approximate total around &lt;b&gt;$7,630.00&lt;/b&gt;.

  How much of that Girl Scout Council&#039;s budget--much less the troop&#039;s available monies--would be taken up with that cost...or, how many boxes of Girl Scout Cookies would it take to cover the estimated cost?  (If there are any Girl Scouts or Girl Scout Council members out there that can say how much the Girl Scouts get per box, jump in and let us know; I don&#039;t know.)

And this is supposed to be a &lt;i&gt;&quot;reasonable accommodation&quot;&lt;/i&gt;???]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Ron, a little math here:<br />
According to the Tribune article, the cost of an interpreter in that area  is $55-60 per hour with a two-hour minimum, possibly more on weekends.  If you assume the troop meets every week for the year, that is:</p>
<p><i> 52 weeks x $110 per week = </i><b>$5,720.00</b></p>
<p>and that is <i>before</i><b> any</b> weekends, outings, cookie sales at grocery stores, Girl Scout Roundup&#8217;s, etc.  If the total time from those, for example, is approximately another 1/3 more hours, now you&#8217;re looking at an approximate total around <b>$7,630.00</b>.</p>
<p>  How much of that Girl Scout Council&#8217;s budget&#8211;much less the troop&#8217;s available monies&#8211;would be taken up with that cost&#8230;or, how many boxes of Girl Scout Cookies would it take to cover the estimated cost?  (If there are any Girl Scouts or Girl Scout Council members out there that can say how much the Girl Scouts get per box, jump in and let us know; I don&#8217;t know.)</p>
<p>And this is supposed to be a <i>&#8220;reasonable accommodation&#8221;</i>???</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172257</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172257</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hugo, I addresses the substance and I made a side comment.  I think that is allowed, according to Internet Rule 424.25(b).  And, I have to tell you, you are misusing the term &quot;straw man.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugo, I addresses the substance and I made a side comment.  I think that is allowed, according to Internet Rule 424.25(b).  And, I have to tell you, you are misusing the term &#8220;straw man.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: boblipton		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2012/08/deaf-girls-family-sues-girl-scouts-disbanding-troop/comment-page-1/#comment-172254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[boblipton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=32035#comment-172254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron, I don&#039;t understand how saying &quot;I don&#039;t wish to pay for your problem&quot; is venom and animus. Nor is this a flat statement.  I am willing to make concessions, but clearly my idea of what &quot;reasonable&quot;  means in &quot;reasonable&quot;  accommodation differs from yours.  I am left with the conclusion that &quot;venom and animus&quot;  are simply buzzwords intended to tar those who disagree with you. 

To put it without any jokes, quips or attempts at creative solutions as I have tried earlier in this particular thread,  the ADA is a good-intentioned piece of legislation that has been used to game the entire system.  The results have been some gains for the handicapped, but the primary beneficiaries seem to have been lawyers and the difference in the two is paid in resentment.  If the Girl Scouts shut down that troop rather than continuing to pay for the cost of an interpreter, then the lesson learned is that you better keep away from the handicapped, because it&#039;s going to cost you a lot of money nd heartache and lawsuits in the end. Even if the Girl Scouts win the suit, it&#039;s still going to cost them a lot of money to defend it.

Finally, the proper attitude to take if I believe the Girl Scouts have shut down my daughter&#039;s troop so they can save a few lousy dollars is to take it to the press and expose them for the lousy hypocrites they are.  I do not want my daughter associating with them and their rotten cookies.

Bob]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I don&#8217;t understand how saying &#8220;I don&#8217;t wish to pay for your problem&#8221; is venom and animus. Nor is this a flat statement.  I am willing to make concessions, but clearly my idea of what &#8220;reasonable&#8221;  means in &#8220;reasonable&#8221;  accommodation differs from yours.  I am left with the conclusion that &#8220;venom and animus&#8221;  are simply buzzwords intended to tar those who disagree with you. </p>
<p>To put it without any jokes, quips or attempts at creative solutions as I have tried earlier in this particular thread,  the ADA is a good-intentioned piece of legislation that has been used to game the entire system.  The results have been some gains for the handicapped, but the primary beneficiaries seem to have been lawyers and the difference in the two is paid in resentment.  If the Girl Scouts shut down that troop rather than continuing to pay for the cost of an interpreter, then the lesson learned is that you better keep away from the handicapped, because it&#8217;s going to cost you a lot of money nd heartache and lawsuits in the end. Even if the Girl Scouts win the suit, it&#8217;s still going to cost them a lot of money to defend it.</p>
<p>Finally, the proper attitude to take if I believe the Girl Scouts have shut down my daughter&#8217;s troop so they can save a few lousy dollars is to take it to the press and expose them for the lousy hypocrites they are.  I do not want my daughter associating with them and their rotten cookies.</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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