Comments on: “I believe that the primary responsibility at this point rests with Cinemark”

By: DEM

DEM — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 01:12:06 +0000

Maybe I missed it, but it seems the posts are ignoring the deterrent factor inherent in having an armed populace. In a world where several moviegoers can reasonably be expected to be armed, the Colorado shooter might well have reasoned, “if I try this I might get killed before I shoot anyone.” Given that the shooter did not commit suicide and is now infamous, the thought of becoming a dead perp might well have deterred him. As it happens, he was quite safe in the assumption that he’d encounter no return fire.

By: OBQuiet

OBQuiet — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 00:29:23 +0000

Benji,

Nothing will be perfect, proper training can certainly help. Or does every rookie in the armed forces panic in his first fire fight?

And at there would have been a fair chance that some of those present might have had combat experience.

I would think that in some cases, there would be additional loss of life. And in others the losses would be reduced. In any one case, it is likely we would never be sure which. All we do know is that one option was removed here.

By: Benji

Benji — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:16:08 +0000

E-Bell: They’re most likely good marksmen at the shooting range. That’s my concern, though – ‘at the range’, not ‘while someone is trying to shoot and kill them.’ There’s no way to go to the range and practice being calm and precise while in imminent mortal danger.
There’s a chance that an armed citizen might have reduced the loss of life at Aurora, I’ll admit. But there’s also a chance they wouldn’t have helped much or would have made things worse. I was a little disgusted by the pro-gun crowd that seemed absolutely positive that a single armed citizen in the audience would definitely have saved nearly everyone there.

By: Mannie

Mannie — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 21:19:39 +0000

That was a situation where private CCW defense would be at a severe disadvantage. The murderer had the factor of surprise, poor light, and victims running about fouling the line of return fire. Still any chance is better than none, and even a couple of return shots, high into the overhead, might distract the mope enough for more people to get away, or for someone to rush him. Any resistance is an encouraging element for others. If the CCW was lucky enough to be in the right position, he could have been decisive. On Monday Morning, it’s easy to see they should have gone deep and passed the ball.

I’m convinced that if everybody in the theatre ran to the sound of the guns, and rushed the mope, they could have taken him down at relatively little cost. Yeah, easy for me to say, safe behind my keyboard, but it doesn’t hurt any more to be shot in the chest that in the back. Sometimes, you have to throw your life away to save it. This is similar to Army ambush drill. You run from a far ambush. You attack a near ambush. It’s the best hope you have.

Attack. Attack. Always attack.

By: L. C. Burgundy

L. C. Burgundy — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:45:26 +0000

I generally disagree with this sort of blatant search for deep pockets, but these sorts of “gun-free zone” policies really are more accurately titled “criminal empowerment zones.” Sure, Benji, doug, perhaps an armed victim would have shot someone else, but that’s just rank speculation. You could argue against police response to many violent scenes for the same reason. Gun-free zones merely ensure a captive audience that WILL be helplessly murdered by the first nut who comes along whose respect for corporate policy is lacking, as what happened here.

By: E-Bell

E-Bell — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:36:07 +0000

Benji, I’d wager that your typical concealed-carry permit holder is a pretty experienced shooter – almost certainly better trained than your typical drug dealer, mugger or spree killer (Charles Whitman notwithstanding).

In fact, I’d say that in many places, a permit-holder is probably better trained than the average law enforcement officer. Take the Empire State Building incident that happened a few weeks back – the police there didn’t hit the suspect once but nailed several bystanders, and NYC police firearms training has consequently put under them microscope and found to be severely lacking.

People who get permits and carry regularly tend to be hobbyists. They go to the range often and shoot thousands of rounds per year. Sometimes they even take special classes that simulate stressful situations like robberies or combat.

By: doug

doug — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:56:39 +0000

that is an absurd statement.

By: ParatrooperJJ

ParatrooperJJ — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:27:53 +0000

It’s a pretty basic point of law that merchants are responsible for the employee’s and patron’s safety. It’s even more apparent when a merchant affirmatively restricts their rights to self defense.

By: Benji

Benji — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:57:31 +0000

Never liked the line of reasoning that more people carrying guns would prevent it. These aren’t expert soldiers or marksmen or anything – they’re regular people with a carry permit. I imagine they’re about as panicked as anyone else when someone fires on them, and they’re good but not perfect shots. In a crowded theater filled with smoke bombs and general panic, they seem more likely to hit more innocent bystanders than to pick off the actual shooter. And also likely to shoot at the other people trying to hit the original shooter – under the circumstances you don’t stop to figure out who someone’s shooting at and why before opening fire yourself.

By: doug

doug — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:11:13 +0000

well, then the people who had firearms and used them in the theater can also be sued by the victims who were shot by them too.