Comments on: Michigan prepares to enact right-to-work law

By: William Nuesslein

William Nuesslein — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:37:40 +0000

I listen to MSNBC and thereby get a lot of claims that Unions lead to higher wages. The idea is that workers and management divide revenue in a zero sum way. But unions as an institution have little to do with improvements in standards of living because they do not make things or provide innovation directly. They do provide socialization of heath care and retirement costs and lower excessive labor competition. While those features lower productivity at the margin, they lead to a more humane workforce and might increase productivity in a macro way.

When unions do raise wages for their members, they do so by capturing increases in productivity. This is what happened when aviation went to larger planes and jet engines. In a free market those gains go to consumers, many of whom are workers in non-aviation industries. And of course people such as pilots make pigs of themselves. When aviation was deregulated, aviation unions were forced into givebacks. Auto workers were caught in the trap of greed and bad Pension regulation where current costs were transferred to future customers – A big time No No in a free market.

With the ACA, Social Security, 401ks, and extensive labor laws, one wonders if unions have any positive social value. That is the real issue. If unions have social value, then all unionized workers should pay for them.

By: Hugo S. Cunningham

Hugo S. Cunningham — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:07:23 +0000

@OBQuiet–
The term of art you are looking for is “symbolic speech.”
The jackboot that a stormtrooper puts through a piece of “degenerate art” is equally deserving of respect as the artwork itself.
The “protestors” who seize all the copies of a campus newspaper for destruction are equally deserving of respect as those who composed the newspaper.

By: OBQuiet

OBQuiet — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:08:58 +0000

Leave Frank alone!
Free speech includes the assaults on people and property by the union demonstrators that have been recorded. Think of it as performance art. That makes it protected, right?

By: Hugo S. Cunningham

Hugo S. Cunningham — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:03:01 +0000

I share Walter’s irritation with sugar-coated terms like “civil disobedience” and “non-violent” for protests well beyond the “peaceable assembly” protected by the First Amendment. As replacements, how about
(1) “passive-aggressive protest”– protesters do not strike the first blow, but deprive the public of some basic right that can only be regained by force.
(2) “non-shooting protest”– rock-throwers, vandals, looters, and arsonists can still disclaim bloody intentions, but in a less misleading way.

By: Hugo S. Cunningham

Hugo S. Cunningham — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 02:48:33 +0000

@Black Death–

The results were not quite as anti-union as you remember. A lopsidedly pro-union constitutional amendment was rejected, and an admired conservative State supreme court justice survived a union-backed recall campaign. On the other hand, the unions won a referendum to repeal the governor’s emergency manager law, that allow troubled municipalities to modify unsustainable union contracts short of bankruptcy.

Historically, it has been unwise for Great Lakes Republicans to challenge unions this directly. (For the most recent example, check out Ohio.) Gov. Snyder might have done better hoarding his political capital to protect the taxpayers in Detroit’s upcoming insolvency.

By: Chris Hoey

Chris Hoey — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:16:16 +0000

Tearing down occupied tents with knives, punching out reporters, all the while chanting, “Democracy in action,” and shouting expletives does not sound like a peaceful exercise of 1st Amendment rights. A mob is a mob, and needs to be controlled by force commensurate with the force it has shown.

By: Ozzie

Ozzie — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:32:41 +0000

Shtetl G:
I realized, after reading your post, that I haven’t downloaded the sacrcasm font yet; thanks for the reminder.

By: Ed

Ed — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:31:24 +0000

“They are fighting for the rights of workers and forcibly conscripting union dues from all workers is the only way to do it.”
Shtetl G, please read that statement again… One more time… Do you see it?

Allow me to paraphrase. “We have to trample your rights to protect your rights!” or “We’re doing this for your own good.”

By: Black Death

Black Death — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:20:06 +0000

I live in Michigan. In the recent election, the unions put a bunch of pro-union propositions on the ballot. They all lost, mostly by about 60-40. They also targeted Republican House Speaker Jace Bolger – he won reelection narrowly, 51-49. Looks like it’s payback time.

By: Shtetl G

Shtetl G — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:12:55 +0000

I cannot interfere with your right to speak – and YOU cannot interfere with MY RIGHT TO WORK.

Agreed?
Wrong!

Noble union workers valiantly struggling against the oppression of rich fat cats is democracy in action(much more than any actual vote). They are fighting for the rights of workers and forcibly conscripting union dues from all workers is the only way to do it.

Tea Partiers peacefully rallying for government to reign in spending in the second coming of the KKK and is the true threat to democracy.

I hope you get it now.