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	<title>
	Comments on: Should Vermont legalize happy hour?	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:23:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RAS, so what is the point?  Is it that no studies are valid because they are all biased?  Or is it that all of the studies with which you disagree are complete rubbish?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAS, so what is the point?  Is it that no studies are valid because they are all biased?  Or is it that all of the studies with which you disagree are complete rubbish?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: ras		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ras]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And once we get the &quot;accurate information,&quot; presumably from members of our Completely Objective Class, we can proceed to deprive the innocent rather than punish the guilty. Cuz we just know better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And once we get the &#8220;accurate information,&#8221; presumably from members of our Completely Objective Class, we can proceed to deprive the innocent rather than punish the guilty. Cuz we just know better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: En Passant		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253464</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[En Passant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253464</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To the discussion about statistically establishing whether happy hours increase automobile fatalities (or even automobile crashes), I&#039;d just like to add one thing.

Any such inquiry should include more data than just the gross frequency of fatalities or crashes versus the presence of happy hours in the locale. The time of the crashes, and the time of the happy hours matters. That is, it is less plausible that happy hour drinking between 5PM and 7PM would cause a crash at midnight than a crash at 8PM.

So, a statistical study that accounts for the time of happy hours and the time of drunk driving crashes or fatalities would more plausibly establish or eliminate causation in the &lt;em&gt;post hoc ergo propter hoc&lt;/em&gt; sense.

That said, I do not know what studies actually exist, or whether they account for those times, though I suspect that most only use gross frequencies of crashes versus presence of happy hours, as did the statistics mentioned in the cited news reports. I do know that automobile accident reports typically include the time of the crash as well as some indication of the involved drivers&#039; BAC, so the data should be readily available for anyone who undertakes a more refined study.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the discussion about statistically establishing whether happy hours increase automobile fatalities (or even automobile crashes), I&#8217;d just like to add one thing.</p>
<p>Any such inquiry should include more data than just the gross frequency of fatalities or crashes versus the presence of happy hours in the locale. The time of the crashes, and the time of the happy hours matters. That is, it is less plausible that happy hour drinking between 5PM and 7PM would cause a crash at midnight than a crash at 8PM.</p>
<p>So, a statistical study that accounts for the time of happy hours and the time of drunk driving crashes or fatalities would more plausibly establish or eliminate causation in the <em>post hoc ergo propter hoc</em> sense.</p>
<p>That said, I do not know what studies actually exist, or whether they account for those times, though I suspect that most only use gross frequencies of crashes versus presence of happy hours, as did the statistics mentioned in the cited news reports. I do know that automobile accident reports typically include the time of the crash as well as some indication of the involved drivers&#8217; BAC, so the data should be readily available for anyone who undertakes a more refined study.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253457</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253457</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jim, we would need accurate information and I don&#039;t think anyone on here pretends to have it (at least not yet, could be coming in a few comments).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, we would need accurate information and I don&#8217;t think anyone on here pretends to have it (at least not yet, could be coming in a few comments).</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Ron Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253454</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 18:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253454</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tim I believe in having a police.  I don&#039;t believe in a Gestapo.  I believe in taxes but not socialism.  Point is: society draws a line somewhere.  It is silly to suggest that everyone who thinks happy hour is not worth many deaths (which I did not actually say but do believe) must automatically believe that anything that causes death should be outlawed.  This is silly talk. 

Cars kill people.  I don&#039;t like that about cars.  Hate it, actually.  But cars do so many things to improve the human condition.  Cars also save lives by creating a robust economy that allows us to have an economy that leaves money left over for cancer research, charity and a zillion other ways that lives and saved and the human condition here is improved.  

Now compare the value of cars to the value of discounted drinks.  I submit to you that not only do I believe that cars and discounted drinks have different social utility, everyone else in the world does too. 

But I think it is fair to say that using my hypothetical that if happy hour killed 10,000 people a year, you would still support that wholeheartedly.  It is a valid opinion if you want to push all of your chips to the center of the Pure Libertarian table.  But I think few Americans would go this far.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim I believe in having a police.  I don&#8217;t believe in a Gestapo.  I believe in taxes but not socialism.  Point is: society draws a line somewhere.  It is silly to suggest that everyone who thinks happy hour is not worth many deaths (which I did not actually say but do believe) must automatically believe that anything that causes death should be outlawed.  This is silly talk. </p>
<p>Cars kill people.  I don&#8217;t like that about cars.  Hate it, actually.  But cars do so many things to improve the human condition.  Cars also save lives by creating a robust economy that allows us to have an economy that leaves money left over for cancer research, charity and a zillion other ways that lives and saved and the human condition here is improved.  </p>
<p>Now compare the value of cars to the value of discounted drinks.  I submit to you that not only do I believe that cars and discounted drinks have different social utility, everyone else in the world does too. </p>
<p>But I think it is fair to say that using my hypothetical that if happy hour killed 10,000 people a year, you would still support that wholeheartedly.  It is a valid opinion if you want to push all of your chips to the center of the Pure Libertarian table.  But I think few Americans would go this far.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Collins		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253452</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Collins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253452</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In order to figure any of this out, we would have to have some accurate information, instead of the hyper-inflated statistics put out by MADD and the NHTSA.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order to figure any of this out, we would have to have some accurate information, instead of the hyper-inflated statistics put out by MADD and the NHTSA.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 03:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tim,

You are thinking far too small.  All things that live die.  Birth is the ultimate cause of all deaths.  The most effective way to reduce deaths is to outlaw birth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>You are thinking far too small.  All things that live die.  Birth is the ultimate cause of all deaths.  The most effective way to reduce deaths is to outlaw birth.</p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Tim Miller		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253371</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Dec 2013 01:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253371</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[By Ron&#039;s logic we should make cars in general illegal. Think of the lives saved!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Ron&#8217;s logic we should make cars in general illegal. Think of the lives saved!</p>
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			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: ras		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ras]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Dec 2013 22:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m so glad that it&#039;s up to us to decide based on &quot;quality&quot; studies rather than the onus being on individuals to bear responsibility for their own choices. Cuz we just know better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad that it&#8217;s up to us to decide based on &#8220;quality&#8221; studies rather than the onus being on individuals to bear responsibility for their own choices. Cuz we just know better.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2013/12/vermont-legalize-happy-hour/comment-page-1/#comment-253351</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Dec 2013 21:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=42848#comment-253351</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron,

That&#039;s 50 lives out of how many and how much would it cost to save them?  At what point is the cost too high?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s 50 lives out of how many and how much would it cost to save them?  At what point is the cost too high?</p>
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