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	Comments on: Scorched-pew litigation: Houston subpoenas pastors&#8217; sermons	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:00:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Houston mayor withdraws pastor subpoenas - Overlawyered		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-310817</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Houston mayor withdraws pastor subpoenas - Overlawyered]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-310817</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] One instance of abusively broad litigation discovery down, 437,816 to go. [WSJ Law Blog, Houston Chronicle, City of Houston, earlier] [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] One instance of abusively broad litigation discovery down, 437,816 to go. [WSJ Law Blog, Houston Chronicle, City of Houston, earlier] [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Idaho Hitching Post case - Overlawyered		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-309755</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Idaho Hitching Post case - Overlawyered]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-309755</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] framing efforts, which via Starnes set off a predictable panic about dangers to religious liberty (see also, last week, on the Houston pastors subpoena). In this instance, those efforts amount to something [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] framing efforts, which via Starnes set off a predictable panic about dangers to religious liberty (see also, last week, on the Houston pastors subpoena). In this instance, those efforts amount to something [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308934</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308934</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Also, when even a group with ties to R.J. Rushdoony&#039;s Christian Reconstructionism says it&#039;s more complicated than Todd Starnes and WorldNetDaily are making it out to be, yes, &lt;a href=&quot;http://americanvision.org/11407/houston-demanding-oversight-pastors-sermons/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it&#039;s probably more complicated&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, when even a group with ties to R.J. Rushdoony&#8217;s Christian Reconstructionism says it&#8217;s more complicated than Todd Starnes and WorldNetDaily are making it out to be, yes, <a href="http://americanvision.org/11407/houston-demanding-oversight-pastors-sermons/" rel="nofollow">it&#8217;s probably more complicated</a>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Smith in Texas		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308834</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Smith in Texas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 06:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been in churches that have a congregation of fewer than 100 and churches that seat thousands, they all recorded their sermons and placed them on the web. If a church did make broadcasts on the web and has a website where past sermons are archived, would a subpoena be required? 
Obviously IANAL.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been in churches that have a congregation of fewer than 100 and churches that seat thousands, they all recorded their sermons and placed them on the web. If a church did make broadcasts on the web and has a website where past sermons are archived, would a subpoena be required?<br />
Obviously IANAL.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Houston&#039;s Subpoenaed Sermons - IGF Culture Watch		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Houston&#039;s Subpoenaed Sermons - IGF Culture Watch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 04:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Walter Olson blogs: Scorched-pew litigation: Houston subpoenas pastors’ sermons:  Massively overbroad discovery demands are among the most common abuses in civil litigation, and [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Walter Olson blogs: Scorched-pew litigation: Houston subpoenas pastors’ sermons:  Massively overbroad discovery demands are among the most common abuses in civil litigation, and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308654</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308654</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The lawyers have changed the subpoena to demand from the five pastors who are not a party to the suit to turn over:

&lt;i&gt;All speeches or presentations related to HERO or the Petition prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession. &lt;/i&gt;

source:  http://www.adfmedia.org/files/WoodfillCityQuashPrelimResponse.pdf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lawyers have changed the subpoena to demand from the five pastors who are not a party to the suit to turn over:</p>
<p><i>All speeches or presentations related to HERO or the Petition prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession. </i></p>
<p>source:  <a href="http://www.adfmedia.org/files/WoodfillCityQuashPrelimResponse.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.adfmedia.org/files/WoodfillCityQuashPrelimResponse.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308635</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308635</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would understand if the pastors or churches were suing the city, but I have seen multiple news sources that stated that the pastors under subpoena are not parties to the lawsuit against the city.  

The Houston Chronicle reported that the pastors &quot;are closely tied to the activists&quot; who filed the suit.  

I think this is why critics are condemning the subpoena. The city is intimidating churches who are not party to the lawsuit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would understand if the pastors or churches were suing the city, but I have seen multiple news sources that stated that the pastors under subpoena are not parties to the lawsuit against the city.  </p>
<p>The Houston Chronicle reported that the pastors &#8220;are closely tied to the activists&#8221; who filed the suit.  </p>
<p>I think this is why critics are condemning the subpoena. The city is intimidating churches who are not party to the lawsuit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Attorney J.B. writes to say: &lt;blockquote&gt;The very practical problem is that in the U.S. system you can&#039;t just serve a document request that says in its entirety &quot;Category One: All non-privileged documents in your possession actually relevant to the claims and defenses in this lawsuit, except for the ones I already have and where it&#039;s not relevant for me to be able to establish that you had them in your possession.&quot; That is, oddly enough, considered too vague. So in order to get to that endpoint you typically have to either start with a limited number of sweeping and overbroad categories (which will lead to complaints) or a much larger number (so that nothing falls between the cracks) of more precisely targeted categories, which will also lead to complaints. And frankly when one is on the receiving side one is sometimes tactically happy for an overbroad demand, because it means you can bury the limited number of unfortunate/problematic documents your client was foolish enough to generate in a truckload of irrelevant and benign crap the other side was foolish enough to ask for. Heck, sometimes you really want your document request to be &quot;the 10 documents your most senior officer who will have to testify would most like not to have to explain under oath.&quot; 

It would be pretty hilarious for the pastors here to say &quot;I&#039;ll be more than happy to give the city&#039;s lawyers audio recordings of every single sermon I&#039;ve preached over the last year, as long as they promise to listen to them all from start to finish. I&#039;m always looking for opportunities to spread the Good Word to folks in need of redemption.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attorney J.B. writes to say: </p>
<blockquote><p>The very practical problem is that in the U.S. system you can&#8217;t just serve a document request that says in its entirety &#8220;Category One: All non-privileged documents in your possession actually relevant to the claims and defenses in this lawsuit, except for the ones I already have and where it&#8217;s not relevant for me to be able to establish that you had them in your possession.&#8221; That is, oddly enough, considered too vague. So in order to get to that endpoint you typically have to either start with a limited number of sweeping and overbroad categories (which will lead to complaints) or a much larger number (so that nothing falls between the cracks) of more precisely targeted categories, which will also lead to complaints. And frankly when one is on the receiving side one is sometimes tactically happy for an overbroad demand, because it means you can bury the limited number of unfortunate/problematic documents your client was foolish enough to generate in a truckload of irrelevant and benign crap the other side was foolish enough to ask for. Heck, sometimes you really want your document request to be &#8220;the 10 documents your most senior officer who will have to testify would most like not to have to explain under oath.&#8221; </p>
<p>It would be pretty hilarious for the pastors here to say &#8220;I&#8217;ll be more than happy to give the city&#8217;s lawyers audio recordings of every single sermon I&#8217;ve preached over the last year, as long as they promise to listen to them all from start to finish. I&#8217;m always looking for opportunities to spread the Good Word to folks in need of redemption.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308606</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 14:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308606</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jason: so far as news coverage seems to indicate, the attorneys acting for the city stand in the same position as if they represented a private party in litigation. This does not immunize them from appropriate criticism, but it does distinguish the situation from one where government representatives show up claiming a police or regulation-based right to inspect papers (the way health inspectors might show up at a restaurant).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason: so far as news coverage seems to indicate, the attorneys acting for the city stand in the same position as if they represented a private party in litigation. This does not immunize them from appropriate criticism, but it does distinguish the situation from one where government representatives show up claiming a police or regulation-based right to inspect papers (the way health inspectors might show up at a restaurant).</p>
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		<title>
		By: gitarcarver		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/10/houston-sued-church-related-group-subpoenas-pastors-sermons/comment-page-1/#comment-308458</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gitarcarver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2014 01:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=48900#comment-308458</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[mx,

I agree that the context that it is  churches that are suing the city is missing.

At the same time, the other context that is missing is that churches / pastors that were subpoenaed are not the plaintiffs in the lawsuit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mx,</p>
<p>I agree that the context that it is  churches that are suing the city is missing.</p>
<p>At the same time, the other context that is missing is that churches / pastors that were subpoenaed are not the plaintiffs in the lawsuit.</p>
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