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	Comments on: Illinois: unconstitutional to curb public employee pensions	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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		<title>
		By: Gerry		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334744</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=58268#comment-334744</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This same idiocy is coming to New Jersey soon.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/nj_legislature_passes_public_worker_pension_ballot.html

This is the last ditch attempt by public sector unions to lock in their &lt;s&gt; spoils &lt;/s&gt; pensions. We&#039;ll see more of this in blue states.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This same idiocy is coming to New Jersey soon.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/nj_legislature_passes_public_worker_pension_ballot.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/nj_legislature_passes_public_worker_pension_ballot.html</a></p>
<p>This is the last ditch attempt by public sector unions to lock in their <s> spoils </s> pensions. We&#8217;ll see more of this in blue states.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334739</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334732&quot;&gt;David C&lt;/a&gt;.

Bankruptcy is entirely federal, but under current federal bankruptcy law, cities can only file for bankruptcy if authorized to do so by their state.

The state can issue blanket authorization or do it on a case by case basis.

It was the validity of that authorization that the union challenged.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334732">David C</a>.</p>
<p>Bankruptcy is entirely federal, but under current federal bankruptcy law, cities can only file for bankruptcy if authorized to do so by their state.</p>
<p>The state can issue blanket authorization or do it on a case by case basis.</p>
<p>It was the validity of that authorization that the union challenged.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David C		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334727&quot;&gt;MattS&lt;/a&gt;.

Pretty sure Detroit did indeed get bankruptcy.  I&#039;m not sure how much of that is federal and how much is state, so I don&#039;t know if the precedent counts for anything.  If they can file for bankruptcy, that&#039;s my answer to &quot;what if you can&#039;t pay&quot;.

I guess the other option is amending the state constitution to remove that clause preventing them from reducing the pensions, but I&#039;m not sure if politically that&#039;s feasible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334727">MattS</a>.</p>
<p>Pretty sure Detroit did indeed get bankruptcy.  I&#8217;m not sure how much of that is federal and how much is state, so I don&#8217;t know if the precedent counts for anything.  If they can file for bankruptcy, that&#8217;s my answer to &#8220;what if you can&#8217;t pay&#8221;.</p>
<p>I guess the other option is amending the state constitution to remove that clause preventing them from reducing the pensions, but I&#8217;m not sure if politically that&#8217;s feasible.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rich S		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334729</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 04:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=58268#comment-334729</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334725&quot;&gt;David C&lt;/a&gt;.

David, you are absolutely correct.

In several earlier rulings the IL Supreme Court ruled that neither the State nor the City is required to maintain the various pension funds at any particular funding level.  They merely have to make pension payments to retirees as they come due.  Thus there really is no immediate crisis that rises to the level of throwing out the Constitution.

The Court also noted in earlier cases that a State or City &quot;promise&quot; to make its actuarially determined contribution, as in the current case, is not protected by the Pension Clause.  Thus the Legislature could easily remove that promise in the next legislative session, or even sooner.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334725">David C</a>.</p>
<p>David, you are absolutely correct.</p>
<p>In several earlier rulings the IL Supreme Court ruled that neither the State nor the City is required to maintain the various pension funds at any particular funding level.  They merely have to make pension payments to retirees as they come due.  Thus there really is no immediate crisis that rises to the level of throwing out the Constitution.</p>
<p>The Court also noted in earlier cases that a State or City &#8220;promise&#8221; to make its actuarially determined contribution, as in the current case, is not protected by the Pension Clause.  Thus the Legislature could easily remove that promise in the next legislative session, or even sooner.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334727</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=58268#comment-334727</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334725&quot;&gt;David C&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Pensions may be too high, but you can’t back out of what you’ve already promised to pay just because you don’t want to pay it.&quot;

What if you can&#039;t pay?  What if you have no hope of ever being able to pay?

&quot;Perhaps bankruptcy is an option.&quot;

Detroit filed for bankruptcy.  The unions moved to have the bankruptcy thrown out on the grounds that a similar clause to the Illinois one in the Michigan constitution + the contracts clause of the US constitution made it unconstitutional/illegal for Detroit to file for bankruptcy.  

I don&#039;t know the outcome of the union challenge to the Detroit bankruptcy..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334725">David C</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Pensions may be too high, but you can’t back out of what you’ve already promised to pay just because you don’t want to pay it.&#8221;</p>
<p>What if you can&#8217;t pay?  What if you have no hope of ever being able to pay?</p>
<p>&#8220;Perhaps bankruptcy is an option.&#8221;</p>
<p>Detroit filed for bankruptcy.  The unions moved to have the bankruptcy thrown out on the grounds that a similar clause to the Illinois one in the Michigan constitution + the contracts clause of the US constitution made it unconstitutional/illegal for Detroit to file for bankruptcy.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the outcome of the union challenge to the Detroit bankruptcy..</p>
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		<title>
		By: David C		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/03/illinois-supreme-court-its-unconstitutional-to-fix-pension-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-334725</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2016 23:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=58268#comment-334725</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s the correct ruling, since that clause IS in the Illinois constitution.  Pensions may be too high, but you can&#039;t back out of what you&#039;ve already promised to pay just because you don&#039;t want to pay it.  Perhaps bankruptcy is an option.

And what&#039;s this deal?  Do I understand correctly that it involves the city merely agreeing to pay its existing obligations if the workers agree to contribute more and get less?  Or am I missing something here?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s the correct ruling, since that clause IS in the Illinois constitution.  Pensions may be too high, but you can&#8217;t back out of what you&#8217;ve already promised to pay just because you don&#8217;t want to pay it.  Perhaps bankruptcy is an option.</p>
<p>And what&#8217;s this deal?  Do I understand correctly that it involves the city merely agreeing to pay its existing obligations if the workers agree to contribute more and get less?  Or am I missing something here?</p>
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