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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;Heap no abuse upon judges&#8221;	</title>
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	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337184&quot;&gt;WB&lt;/a&gt;.

I will not speak to the customs in Australia, but there is plenty of evidence to contradict Donald Trump&#039;s claims that there was anything irregular in Judge Curiel&#039;s 1) involvement in the local chapter of a Latino lawyers&#039; group (not the left-wing national one with a similar name), 2) declining to recuse himself for bias; 3) allowing a substitution of lead plaintiff; 4) dismissing many but not all of the Trump University claims on summary judgment. 

1) It is routine for judges in the U.S. to maintain involvements in Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American, etc. bar groups. Not only is there no requirement of recusal -- for example, it was ruled that judges who belonged to a Catholic group of this sort properly did not recuse themselves from a lawsuit against the local archdiocese -- but the Second Circuit upheld sanctions against lawyers who asked for the recusal of an Asian-American federal judge in a case with an Asian ethnic angle. 

2) The recusal issues are dealt with in a more recent Overlawyered post with associated reader comments: 

http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/

Opinion on this among legal practitioners I know is essentially unanimous, which may have a lot to do with why Trump&#039;s lawyers have not moved for recusal and show no plans to do so. 

3) Substitution of lead plaintiff occurs routinely in a consumer class action setting. The judge ordinarily makes an inquiry as to whether the named plaintiffs are indeed typical of others&#039; claims and did so here. I have seen no one conversant with American class action practice make a serious case that Curiel should have shut the case down at this point. 

4) Likewise, while dismissal on summary judgment is a valuable procedural step, it is by no means automatically granted, and Curiel appears to have made exactly the sort of issue-by-issue inquiry called for, with Trump securing dismissal on many claims but not on those where the nature of damages (refund) combined with relatively plaintiff-friendly state law. A lay version here: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/07/sorry-donald-trump-the-mexican-judge-was-just-following-the-law/

Plaintiff&#039;s-side attorney blogger Max Kennerly, a specialist in class actions, analyzed Curiel&#039;s rulings in detail in a recent post, concluding that &quot;Judge Curiel is doing his job like a normal judge, issuing rulings consistent with the case law.&quot; 

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2016/06/articles/attorney/consumer-protection/curiel-trump/

It&#039;s hard for me to identify any error in his conclusion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337184">WB</a>.</p>
<p>I will not speak to the customs in Australia, but there is plenty of evidence to contradict Donald Trump&#8217;s claims that there was anything irregular in Judge Curiel&#8217;s 1) involvement in the local chapter of a Latino lawyers&#8217; group (not the left-wing national one with a similar name), 2) declining to recuse himself for bias; 3) allowing a substitution of lead plaintiff; 4) dismissing many but not all of the Trump University claims on summary judgment. </p>
<p>1) It is routine for judges in the U.S. to maintain involvements in Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American, etc. bar groups. Not only is there no requirement of recusal &#8212; for example, it was ruled that judges who belonged to a Catholic group of this sort properly did not recuse themselves from a lawsuit against the local archdiocese &#8212; but the Second Circuit upheld sanctions against lawyers who asked for the recusal of an Asian-American federal judge in a case with an Asian ethnic angle. </p>
<p>2) The recusal issues are dealt with in a more recent Overlawyered post with associated reader comments: </p>
<p><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/</a></p>
<p>Opinion on this among legal practitioners I know is essentially unanimous, which may have a lot to do with why Trump&#8217;s lawyers have not moved for recusal and show no plans to do so. </p>
<p>3) Substitution of lead plaintiff occurs routinely in a consumer class action setting. The judge ordinarily makes an inquiry as to whether the named plaintiffs are indeed typical of others&#8217; claims and did so here. I have seen no one conversant with American class action practice make a serious case that Curiel should have shut the case down at this point. </p>
<p>4) Likewise, while dismissal on summary judgment is a valuable procedural step, it is by no means automatically granted, and Curiel appears to have made exactly the sort of issue-by-issue inquiry called for, with Trump securing dismissal on many claims but not on those where the nature of damages (refund) combined with relatively plaintiff-friendly state law. A lay version here: </p>
<p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/07/sorry-donald-trump-the-mexican-judge-was-just-following-the-law/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/07/sorry-donald-trump-the-mexican-judge-was-just-following-the-law/</a></p>
<p>Plaintiff&#8217;s-side attorney blogger Max Kennerly, a specialist in class actions, analyzed Curiel&#8217;s rulings in detail in a recent post, concluding that &#8220;Judge Curiel is doing his job like a normal judge, issuing rulings consistent with the case law.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2016/06/articles/attorney/consumer-protection/curiel-trump/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2016/06/articles/attorney/consumer-protection/curiel-trump/</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard for me to identify any error in his conclusion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: WB		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2016 05:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337118&quot;&gt;Walter Olson&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Walter, that&#039;s the group I meant - the latino La Raza bar association group. It strikes me, in Oz, and really bad practice for a sitting judge to be a member of such a group. By all means speak at an event but don&#039;t be a member - that&#039;s bias right there and it&#039;s not unfair or unreasonable for litigants to notice. 

And it&#039;s not unreasonable for litigants who feel they&#039;re getting a raw deal on various procedural orders to wonder what the motivation for the lousy procedural approach might be. 

Trump&#039;s actual words (not shorn of their context a la Anderson Cooper and, sadly, even you a bit) - were something like &#039;we have a judge who&#039;s a hater of Trump&#039;. You&#039;re not seriously trying to argue Curiel doesn&#039;t hate Trump are you? Sure he does. Why is this trial even happening? There&#039;s isn&#039;t even a lead plaintiff any more! I think we have every right to wonder about Judge Curiel&#039;s bona fides towards the defendant.  

That&#039;s my 2 cents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337118">Walter Olson</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Walter, that&#8217;s the group I meant &#8211; the latino La Raza bar association group. It strikes me, in Oz, and really bad practice for a sitting judge to be a member of such a group. By all means speak at an event but don&#8217;t be a member &#8211; that&#8217;s bias right there and it&#8217;s not unfair or unreasonable for litigants to notice. </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not unreasonable for litigants who feel they&#8217;re getting a raw deal on various procedural orders to wonder what the motivation for the lousy procedural approach might be. </p>
<p>Trump&#8217;s actual words (not shorn of their context a la Anderson Cooper and, sadly, even you a bit) &#8211; were something like &#8216;we have a judge who&#8217;s a hater of Trump&#8217;. You&#8217;re not seriously trying to argue Curiel doesn&#8217;t hate Trump are you? Sure he does. Why is this trial even happening? There&#8217;s isn&#8217;t even a lead plaintiff any more! I think we have every right to wonder about Judge Curiel&#8217;s bona fides towards the defendant.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my 2 cents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337120</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337120</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[See also this morning&#039;s new post at Overlawyered: 

http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See also this morning&#8217;s new post at Overlawyered: </p>
<p><a href="http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://overlawyered.com/2016/06/non-close-case-recusal/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Walter Olson		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walter Olson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337113&quot;&gt;WB&lt;/a&gt;.

On Trump&#039;s erroneous conflation of the left-wing national activist group La Raza with the unrelated locally named La Raza Lawyers Association, which bills itself as California&#039;s Latino bar group, see among many others Leon Wolf: 

http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/03/dishonest-attempt-associate-gonzalo-curiel-la-raza/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337113">WB</a>.</p>
<p>On Trump&#8217;s erroneous conflation of the left-wing national activist group La Raza with the unrelated locally named La Raza Lawyers Association, which bills itself as California&#8217;s Latino bar group, see among many others Leon Wolf: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/03/dishonest-attempt-associate-gonzalo-curiel-la-raza/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/06/03/dishonest-attempt-associate-gonzalo-curiel-la-raza/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: WB		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337113</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 06:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337113</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sitting here in Oz I am struck by the pearl-clutching in the US legal fraternity and the law/media folks over Trump&#039;s remarks about the Trump Uni case judge, Curiel. 

I appreciate that members of the bench have already earned my respect by virtue of occupying the office. But it is possible for them to lose respect if they behave improperly  and it shouldn&#039;t be beyond the pale for litigants, particularly defendants, to notice that judges have behaved improperly. Curiel is an on-the-record supporter of that silly (to me) La Raza group, he&#039;s been the judge on the trial for months so Trump&#039;s been well able to form a view about his attitude toward the defendant, and his recent order for release of docs was done so hastily he forgot to order redactions on the docs first - not exactly sterling work by his honour. 

Litigation lawyers talk this way about judges all the time. It isn&#039;t a surprise an experienced litigant like Trump would adopt the same approach. 

the thing with Trump, however, is he pays superhardball. Any order Curiel now makes that&#039;s unfavourable to Trump will be tarred as being motivated by bias. Big ol&#039; Mexican bias. And the judge has only himself to blame by being out and proud about La Raza.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sitting here in Oz I am struck by the pearl-clutching in the US legal fraternity and the law/media folks over Trump&#8217;s remarks about the Trump Uni case judge, Curiel. </p>
<p>I appreciate that members of the bench have already earned my respect by virtue of occupying the office. But it is possible for them to lose respect if they behave improperly  and it shouldn&#8217;t be beyond the pale for litigants, particularly defendants, to notice that judges have behaved improperly. Curiel is an on-the-record supporter of that silly (to me) La Raza group, he&#8217;s been the judge on the trial for months so Trump&#8217;s been well able to form a view about his attitude toward the defendant, and his recent order for release of docs was done so hastily he forgot to order redactions on the docs first &#8211; not exactly sterling work by his honour. </p>
<p>Litigation lawyers talk this way about judges all the time. It isn&#8217;t a surprise an experienced litigant like Trump would adopt the same approach. </p>
<p>the thing with Trump, however, is he pays superhardball. Any order Curiel now makes that&#8217;s unfavourable to Trump will be tarred as being motivated by bias. Big ol&#8217; Mexican bias. And the judge has only himself to blame by being out and proud about La Raza.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mx		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337106</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2016 19:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337106</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337097&quot;&gt;jordanM&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re also not entitled to throw all the Mexican-Americans off your jury because you say things some of them may find offensive. We literally &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-8349_6k47.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;just heard&lt;/a&gt; from the Supreme Court on this topic a few weeks ago.

Race and ethnicity are not criteria by which a judge may be asked to recuse himself. If there were actual evidence of bias by the Judge, then we&#039;d be hearing actual legal arguments about his specific rulings instead of broad attacks on his heritage. We&#039;ve heard none. 

You also seem to be conflating criminal trials with civil class actions; the two cases being heard by Judge Curiel are the latter and don&#039;t involve prosecutors or the police.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337097">jordanM</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re also not entitled to throw all the Mexican-Americans off your jury because you say things some of them may find offensive. We literally <a href="http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-8349_6k47.pdf" rel="nofollow">just heard</a> from the Supreme Court on this topic a few weeks ago.</p>
<p>Race and ethnicity are not criteria by which a judge may be asked to recuse himself. If there were actual evidence of bias by the Judge, then we&#8217;d be hearing actual legal arguments about his specific rulings instead of broad attacks on his heritage. We&#8217;ve heard none. </p>
<p>You also seem to be conflating criminal trials with civil class actions; the two cases being heard by Judge Curiel are the latter and don&#8217;t involve prosecutors or the police.</p>
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		By: jordanM		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jordanM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2016 16:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337058&quot;&gt;Chris Mallory&lt;/a&gt;.

Trump, in his own coarse manner, exposes the hypocrisy in contemporary jurisprudence. 

 If litigants have legal right to an impartial jury -- why no right to an impartial government judge or prosecutor ??

Of course jury trials are rare, but always dominated by non-impartial government agents (judges, prosecutors, police,etc) Stacking juries is routine via voir dire... and jury instructions/control of jurors by judges is usually ecessive and unjust.

Non-jury trials are overwhelmingly controlled by biased government agents.  Private litigants &#038; defendants are at a huge disadvantage unless they have substantial financial resources and highly skilled attorneys. But overall, once one is in the government&#039;s legal cross-hairs-- the outcome is almost certain.  Federal government conviction rates approach 100%.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337058">Chris Mallory</a>.</p>
<p>Trump, in his own coarse manner, exposes the hypocrisy in contemporary jurisprudence. </p>
<p> If litigants have legal right to an impartial jury &#8212; why no right to an impartial government judge or prosecutor ??</p>
<p>Of course jury trials are rare, but always dominated by non-impartial government agents (judges, prosecutors, police,etc) Stacking juries is routine via voir dire&#8230; and jury instructions/control of jurors by judges is usually ecessive and unjust.</p>
<p>Non-jury trials are overwhelmingly controlled by biased government agents.  Private litigants &amp; defendants are at a huge disadvantage unless they have substantial financial resources and highly skilled attorneys. But overall, once one is in the government&#8217;s legal cross-hairs&#8211; the outcome is almost certain.  Federal government conviction rates approach 100%.</p>
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		<title>
		By: great unknown		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337076</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[great unknown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2016 23:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337076</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wonder what the New Berkeley edition was translating?  Certainly not the G-d given Hebrew original, where the object is &quot;prince&quot; or &quot;leader&quot;, not &quot;judge.&quot;  Now it may be argued that many judges consider themselves princes, but that is not an opinion that is widely supported.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what the New Berkeley edition was translating?  Certainly not the G-d given Hebrew original, where the object is &#8220;prince&#8221; or &#8220;leader&#8221;, not &#8220;judge.&#8221;  Now it may be argued that many judges consider themselves princes, but that is not an opinion that is widely supported.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David C		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2016 20:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://overlawyered.com/?p=59554#comment-337067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If I were a litigant, I&#039;d probably not want to criticize the judge as a practical matter - if he&#039;s not biased, I&#039;m wronging him, and if he IS biased, it&#039;s just going to make things worse.  On the other hand, if a judge is clearly wronging me, I should have every right to say so.

But this isn&#039;t a one-way street against judges.  DOMA was invalidated because the Supreme Court decided that the motive for passing it was pure hatred.  IMO that&#039;s worse than anything Trump said about this judge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were a litigant, I&#8217;d probably not want to criticize the judge as a practical matter &#8211; if he&#8217;s not biased, I&#8217;m wronging him, and if he IS biased, it&#8217;s just going to make things worse.  On the other hand, if a judge is clearly wronging me, I should have every right to say so.</p>
<p>But this isn&#8217;t a one-way street against judges.  DOMA was invalidated because the Supreme Court decided that the motive for passing it was pure hatred.  IMO that&#8217;s worse than anything Trump said about this judge.</p>
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		By: Hugo S Cunningham		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/06/heap-no-abuse-upon-judges/comment-page-1/#comment-337062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugo S Cunningham]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[I first heard of Geoffrey Fieger as Jack Kevorkian&#039;s attorney, before Kevorkian self-destructed as a publicity-crazed kamikaze.  As a candidate, Fieger immediately repudiated his work for Kevorkian, the one thing I was most inclined to hold in his favor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first heard of Geoffrey Fieger as Jack Kevorkian&#8217;s attorney, before Kevorkian self-destructed as a publicity-crazed kamikaze.  As a candidate, Fieger immediately repudiated his work for Kevorkian, the one thing I was most inclined to hold in his favor.</p>
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