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	Comments on: September 7 roundup	</title>
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	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340807</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 21:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340807</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Administrative Hearing Offices were developed to avoid the situation where specific agencies identify and hire the hearing officer.  They basically operate as independently as the courts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Administrative Hearing Offices were developed to avoid the situation where specific agencies identify and hire the hearing officer.  They basically operate as independently as the courts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340802</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 18:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340766&quot;&gt;David C&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;I see issues, but all of them would be better solved by getting rid of that other law that requires one and only one distributor. &quot;

Well, we can agree on that much.

&quot; I don’t see the point in a law saying that a company can’t distribute its own beer, and I don’t see the point in a law saying that only one distributor can be used in a particular area.&quot;

It&#039;s one law that says both those things, Not two separate laws.  

There is even one state that only has state run liquor stores.  Restaurants and bars can sell alcohol for consumption on premises, but only the state owned and operated stores can sell liquor for consumption off premises.

&quot;Does someone in the beer distribution business have a seat in the Texas legislature, or something?&quot;

Very likely yes.  Though when the laws were originally passed, it was probably the other way around, one or more of the state legislators had plans to create distributors.

Texas is not the only state that requires the use of distributors and requires exclusive territories for the distributors. And the distributors tend to have a fair amount of political influence in the states that have those kinds of arrangements.  

Though Texas is the only state I have heard of where they have barred brewers from charging the distributors for the territorial rights.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340766">David C</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;I see issues, but all of them would be better solved by getting rid of that other law that requires one and only one distributor. &#8221;</p>
<p>Well, we can agree on that much.</p>
<p>&#8221; I don’t see the point in a law saying that a company can’t distribute its own beer, and I don’t see the point in a law saying that only one distributor can be used in a particular area.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one law that says both those things, Not two separate laws.  </p>
<p>There is even one state that only has state run liquor stores.  Restaurants and bars can sell alcohol for consumption on premises, but only the state owned and operated stores can sell liquor for consumption off premises.</p>
<p>&#8220;Does someone in the beer distribution business have a seat in the Texas legislature, or something?&#8221;</p>
<p>Very likely yes.  Though when the laws were originally passed, it was probably the other way around, one or more of the state legislators had plans to create distributors.</p>
<p>Texas is not the only state that requires the use of distributors and requires exclusive territories for the distributors. And the distributors tend to have a fair amount of political influence in the states that have those kinds of arrangements.  </p>
<p>Though Texas is the only state I have heard of where they have barred brewers from charging the distributors for the territorial rights.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340788</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 13:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340788</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re Richard:

&quot;in a lot of public employment in the US, matters are determined by an ALJ assigned by an agency called the Office of Administrative Hearings or something similar &quot;

Live and learn. 

That seems to be a more egregious conflict than the one I mentioned (I&#039;ll admit that I am only familiar with disciplinary proceedings in my state &#038; municipal entities within the state that I have worked. For.).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Richard:</p>
<p>&#8220;in a lot of public employment in the US, matters are determined by an ALJ assigned by an agency called the Office of Administrative Hearings or something similar &#8221;</p>
<p>Live and learn. </p>
<p>That seems to be a more egregious conflict than the one I mentioned (I&#8217;ll admit that I am only familiar with disciplinary proceedings in my state &amp; municipal entities within the state that I have worked. For.).</p>
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		<title>
		By: David C		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340766</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 20:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340766</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340751&quot;&gt;MattS&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Except it’s not really charging the distributor again just for the right to sell the beer.&quot;

Since the distributor has no way to legally sell this beer in Texas without obtaining those rights, and since both the beer and those rights have a price tag, I must conclude that yes, it really is.

&quot;The breweries have to sell through a distributor, they can’t sell direct to retailers and they are only allowed to have one distributor in a given area.

It’s that exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.&quot;

Exactly.  The rights only have value because of the effects of state laws.  I think it&#039;s ridiculous to say the state can&#039;t change a law because it affects this &quot;property&quot; that it created in the first place.  

&quot;If you can’t see the issue with that…&quot;

I see issues, but all of them would be better solved by getting rid of that other law that requires one and only one distributor.  I don&#039;t see the point in a law saying that a company can&#039;t distribute its own beer, and I don&#039;t see the point in a law saying that only one distributor can be used in a particular area.  And the combination of those laws just seems bizarre.  It would be like requiring Ford to sell to a dealership instead of the public (such laws exist) and then requiring that there only be one Ford dealership per city (such laws do not exist.)  It&#039;s like you&#039;re destroying and creating a monopoly at the same time.  And now this new law also seems like it&#039;s specifically benefiting the distributors at the expense of the brewers (I may not think the law is actually unconstitutional and I may not be crying for the brewers, but that doesn&#039;t mean I think it&#039;s a particularly good idea, either.)  Does someone in the beer distribution business have a seat in the Texas legislature, or something?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340751">MattS</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Except it’s not really charging the distributor again just for the right to sell the beer.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since the distributor has no way to legally sell this beer in Texas without obtaining those rights, and since both the beer and those rights have a price tag, I must conclude that yes, it really is.</p>
<p>&#8220;The breweries have to sell through a distributor, they can’t sell direct to retailers and they are only allowed to have one distributor in a given area.</p>
<p>It’s that exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.  The rights only have value because of the effects of state laws.  I think it&#8217;s ridiculous to say the state can&#8217;t change a law because it affects this &#8220;property&#8221; that it created in the first place.  </p>
<p>&#8220;If you can’t see the issue with that…&#8221;</p>
<p>I see issues, but all of them would be better solved by getting rid of that other law that requires one and only one distributor.  I don&#8217;t see the point in a law saying that a company can&#8217;t distribute its own beer, and I don&#8217;t see the point in a law saying that only one distributor can be used in a particular area.  And the combination of those laws just seems bizarre.  It would be like requiring Ford to sell to a dealership instead of the public (such laws exist) and then requiring that there only be one Ford dealership per city (such laws do not exist.)  It&#8217;s like you&#8217;re destroying and creating a monopoly at the same time.  And now this new law also seems like it&#8217;s specifically benefiting the distributors at the expense of the brewers (I may not think the law is actually unconstitutional and I may not be crying for the brewers, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I think it&#8217;s a particularly good idea, either.)  Does someone in the beer distribution business have a seat in the Texas legislature, or something?</p>
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		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 17:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340750&quot;&gt;Mike&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;It would be pretty clear to me, if I were vying for such a job, that any decision which deprived an employee of their job would result in my being booted from the pool for the next go round of assignments. Maybe that’s the problem.&quot;

Perhaps, but should not also decisions preventing the firing of employees for gross misconduct and/or incompetence not also have the same result.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340750">Mike</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;It would be pretty clear to me, if I were vying for such a job, that any decision which deprived an employee of their job would result in my being booted from the pool for the next go round of assignments. Maybe that’s the problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps, but should not also decisions preventing the firing of employees for gross misconduct and/or incompetence not also have the same result.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 16:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike,  in a lot of public employment in the US, matters are determined by an ALJ assigned by an agency called the Office of Administrative Hearings or something similar (depending on the specific jurisdiction).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,  in a lot of public employment in the US, matters are determined by an ALJ assigned by an agency called the Office of Administrative Hearings or something similar (depending on the specific jurisdiction).</p>
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		<title>
		By: MattS		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 14:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340726&quot;&gt;David C&lt;/a&gt;.

Except it&#039;s not really charging the distributor again just for the right to sell the beer.

The breweries have to sell through a distributor, they can&#039;t sell direct to retailers and they are only allowed to have one distributor in a given area. 

It&#039;s that exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.

The law that was struck down prohibited the brewers from charging for the distribution rights while maintaining the exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.

So, the property still exists, and it&#039;s still very valuable, but you have to give it away for free.    

If you can&#039;t see the issue with that...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340726">David C</a>.</p>
<p>Except it&#8217;s not really charging the distributor again just for the right to sell the beer.</p>
<p>The breweries have to sell through a distributor, they can&#8217;t sell direct to retailers and they are only allowed to have one distributor in a given area. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s that exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.</p>
<p>The law that was struck down prohibited the brewers from charging for the distribution rights while maintaining the exclusivity that makes the distribution rights valuable.</p>
<p>So, the property still exists, and it&#8217;s still very valuable, but you have to give it away for free.    </p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t see the issue with that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340750</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 13:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340750</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re Mr. Unknown:

&quot;Recently, administrative judges have ruled that convicted criminals could not be fired from government jobs and gross incompetence is not grounds for dismissal.&quot;

Kind of sounds like these are arbitrations before an &quot;independent&quot; arbitrator, rather than an administrative law judge. I&#039;m not aware of any agency that actually has its own judges rule on its own labor matters.

Assuming I&#039;m right, be aware that arbitrators for employee disciplinary proceedings are ordinarily picked from a pool agreed upon by the union and by the government. It would be pretty clear to me, if I were vying for such a job, that any decision which deprived an employee of their job would result in my being booted from the pool for the next go round of assignments. Maybe that&#039;s the problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Mr. Unknown:</p>
<p>&#8220;Recently, administrative judges have ruled that convicted criminals could not be fired from government jobs and gross incompetence is not grounds for dismissal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kind of sounds like these are arbitrations before an &#8220;independent&#8221; arbitrator, rather than an administrative law judge. I&#8217;m not aware of any agency that actually has its own judges rule on its own labor matters.</p>
<p>Assuming I&#8217;m right, be aware that arbitrators for employee disciplinary proceedings are ordinarily picked from a pool agreed upon by the union and by the government. It would be pretty clear to me, if I were vying for such a job, that any decision which deprived an employee of their job would result in my being booted from the pool for the next go round of assignments. Maybe that&#8217;s the problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David C		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340726</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2016 23:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340726</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Regarding the Texas brewery law:  I don&#039;t see the issue.  The &quot;property&quot; in question only exists in the first place because of other laws regulating how beer is sold and distributed.  I wouldn&#039;t feel sorry for the brewers if they no longer got to charge their distributors for the beer and then charge them again for the right to actually sell that beer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Texas brewery law:  I don&#8217;t see the issue.  The &#8220;property&#8221; in question only exists in the first place because of other laws regulating how beer is sold and distributed.  I wouldn&#8217;t feel sorry for the brewers if they no longer got to charge their distributors for the beer and then charge them again for the right to actually sell that beer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: great unknown		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340713</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[great unknown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2016 17:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=60808#comment-340713</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340702&quot;&gt;SPO&lt;/a&gt;.

What you are calling for is one small aspect of a much bigger, far-more-pervasive problem: the Civil Service and all of its protections.  Recently, administrative judges have ruled that convicted criminals could not be fired from government jobs and gross incompetence is not grounds for dismissal.

Apparently the only grounds for disciplining/firing a government employee currently are whistle-blowing and testifying honestly before Congress.   

Reform the Civil Service, give the IGs prosecutorial powers, and much incompetence and criminality will disappear.  However, that happening is highly contingent on the results of the next election, at all Federal levels.  It would also probably lead to rioting and terrorism by the affected unions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2016/09/september-7-roundup-3/comment-page-1/#comment-340702">SPO</a>.</p>
<p>What you are calling for is one small aspect of a much bigger, far-more-pervasive problem: the Civil Service and all of its protections.  Recently, administrative judges have ruled that convicted criminals could not be fired from government jobs and gross incompetence is not grounds for dismissal.</p>
<p>Apparently the only grounds for disciplining/firing a government employee currently are whistle-blowing and testifying honestly before Congress.   </p>
<p>Reform the Civil Service, give the IGs prosecutorial powers, and much incompetence and criminality will disappear.  However, that happening is highly contingent on the results of the next election, at all Federal levels.  It would also probably lead to rioting and terrorism by the affected unions.</p>
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