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	<title>
	Comments on: Union sues against term it negotiated	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/</link>
	<description>Chronicling the high cost of our legal system</description>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: cecil		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cecil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But you were never legally required to accept the duel.  And the challenged got the choice of weapons...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you were never legally required to accept the duel.  And the challenged got the choice of weapons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Allan		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346021&quot;&gt;gasman&lt;/a&gt;.

Essentially, the old agreement was having the company pay for 20 minutes of non-work so that it could have employees take 10 minutes less off during the shift.  And the employees were agreeing to give up the 10 minutes for an additional 20 minutes of pay and 30 minutes off of the shift.

The question is not whether they all got what they bargained for.  The question is whether they should be allowed to bargain for it in the first place.  The law is pretty clear:  the agreement was not allowed.  

Should the company get dinged for 100% of this?  of course not.

Should the law be what it is?  That, of course, is a different question.

As for the metaphor, duelists get a lot out of the duel, even if they die.  If that were not the case, why would they risk the duel?  One could make the case that duelers get more out of their bargain than the employee and company got out of theirs, given that one involved life and death and the other involved having time to eat a liverwurst sandwich.  That does not mean, however, that we should re-legalize dueling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346021">gasman</a>.</p>
<p>Essentially, the old agreement was having the company pay for 20 minutes of non-work so that it could have employees take 10 minutes less off during the shift.  And the employees were agreeing to give up the 10 minutes for an additional 20 minutes of pay and 30 minutes off of the shift.</p>
<p>The question is not whether they all got what they bargained for.  The question is whether they should be allowed to bargain for it in the first place.  The law is pretty clear:  the agreement was not allowed.  </p>
<p>Should the company get dinged for 100% of this?  of course not.</p>
<p>Should the law be what it is?  That, of course, is a different question.</p>
<p>As for the metaphor, duelists get a lot out of the duel, even if they die.  If that were not the case, why would they risk the duel?  One could make the case that duelers get more out of their bargain than the employee and company got out of theirs, given that one involved life and death and the other involved having time to eat a liverwurst sandwich.  That does not mean, however, that we should re-legalize dueling.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: gasman		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gasman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, but in this &#039;duel&#039; between the employees and employer, each was getting something of value.  
Old system: Employees worked 7 2/3 hours, lunched 20 minutes, and received a wage of 8 hours.   
In new situation employees work 8 hours, lunch 30 minutes, and still only receive wage of 8 hours, but are &#039;owned&#039; by the employer for 8.5 hours from the start of work to end of work, minus lunch time.  

So the union managed to effect:
1) longer work day, 8.5 hours vs 8 hours
2) same pay
3) unpaid lunch versus paid lunch period, though now 10 minutes longer]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but in this &#8216;duel&#8217; between the employees and employer, each was getting something of value.<br />
Old system: Employees worked 7 2/3 hours, lunched 20 minutes, and received a wage of 8 hours.<br />
In new situation employees work 8 hours, lunch 30 minutes, and still only receive wage of 8 hours, but are &#8216;owned&#8217; by the employer for 8.5 hours from the start of work to end of work, minus lunch time.  </p>
<p>So the union managed to effect:<br />
1) longer work day, 8.5 hours vs 8 hours<br />
2) same pay<br />
3) unpaid lunch versus paid lunch period, though now 10 minutes longer</p>
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		<title>
		By: Allan		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346014&quot;&gt;Timothy Harris&lt;/a&gt;.

well played.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346014">Timothy Harris</a>.</p>
<p>well played.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Harris		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346014</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346014</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The attorneys]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The attorneys</p>
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		<title>
		By: Allan		</title>
		<link>https://www.overlawyered.com/2017/06/union-sues-term-negotiated/comment-page-1/#comment-346011</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.overlawyered.com/?p=64560#comment-346011</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John and Paul are angry at each other.  They agree to duel at 10 paces.  Paul kills John.  John&#039;s estate sues Paul for assault.  The state charges Paul with murder.  Who prevails?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John and Paul are angry at each other.  They agree to duel at 10 paces.  Paul kills John.  John&#8217;s estate sues Paul for assault.  The state charges Paul with murder.  Who prevails?</p>
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