Comments on: Web accessibility advocates breaking through in court?

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 02:25:39 +0000

In reply to cecil.

and BTW, if these provisions actually gave any real guidance, then the long-awaited and never issued DOJ guidelines would not have been necessary. But of course, the plaintiffs’ bar would prefer that the legal standards were nebulous so to ensure that even those sites that are WCAG 2.0 AA compliant (the newest “consensus” standard) aren’t safe from claims.

Why don’t we instead take away the ability to code HTML that doesn’t meet whatever standard you want websites to meet? Why isn’t HTML the culprit? Ahh, no big pocket to go after.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 22:45:46 +0000

In reply to cecil. Sure Cecil, and even those agencies have no idea what accessibility looks like. Try again.

By: Hugo S Cunningham

Hugo S Cunningham — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 20:34:41 +0000

Cecil– An article (that I have lost track of) states that Berkeley has blind and other disabled students, and accommodates them up to ADA standards. But many of the old lectures were videotaped in classes that did not have disabled students. Berkeley is still ready to accommodate a disabled Berkeley student who is interested in a particular videotaped lecture.
For a single disabled student, it might be cheaper to provide an assistant to explain or obtain the inaccessible material, rather than manually reformat the whole lecture.

By: cecil

cecil — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:47:35 +0000

And do you have any clue on whether any form of automated conversion is even technically possible? Many things are simply an order of magnitude or two easier to make accessible in the first place than to tack on some sort of attempt to cure defects after the fact. Example: government forms with the ability to accept electronic signatures. It is much easier to define the signature block when creating the form than having a screen reader try to figure out how to place a resizeable rectangle somewhere appropriate for the representation of the signature. Otherwise adobe just prompts you to place the block before it will let you actually sign it. When you’re not actually using a mouse that is difficult. How does an automated system describe a picture? How would it convey a flow chart?
Seriously, screen readers process web pages as much as programmatically possible to try and make sense of them for the user. Malformed pages, graphics, abuse of standards, all go to make the job even more difficult. One site I frequent uses background images to convey information. My screen reader says “it’s a background image” and throws it out. These are the sort of issues I take up with the site admins/content creators. Sometimes they just like the way it looks and leave it broken for me, and I deal with it. Is it a temptation to run off to a lawyer? No. It’s an area that shows 1 to 5 stars, if it really matters to me I can review source code to see which file they pull. Having it speak when I get there would be great but i’m not going to die without it. It isn’t going to make or break my job. It isn’t going to leave someone else unemployed. Get the picture? They even work with me on other things that actually matter to me (even though it’s just a game). In short, there are trade offs that I understand. How easy is it to change, how much dev time does it take, what will be the impact to everyone else. I was and am a programmer, so I understand those concerns. Nowadays my programming is just scripts to make repetitive admin tasks a matter of running a script rather than the programs with tens or hundred of thousands of lines from my beginnings.

By: cecil

cecil — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:43:47 +0000

Hugo, are you telling me that neither institution has ever had a blind student? Weren’t the course materials supposed to be accessible to them? You act like it’s just the non-paying general public, my opinion is that it is more systemic and indicates a problem with their student body as well. But that is an assumption and I will leave it there. But I have not heard any reason that the materials should not have been accessible when produced for internal consumption, regardless of any decision to provide it free of charge to the general public.

By: cecil

cecil — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:27:22 +0000

Bob, the access board sets the technical standard. No, they are not a regulatory agency, they are a standard setting agency. I thought you were asking about standards? Were you instead asking about regulations? If so, then I refer you to the ADA, section 501, section 504, section 508 and the telecommunications act of 1996, and other similar regulations, typically enforced by eeoc, doj, fcc, ftc, many federal agencies for internal matters, and individuals thru the court system.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 02:09:19 +0000

In reply to Jim Collins. It's not that far off - See Sutton v. UAL.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 29 Aug 2017 02:07:40 +0000

In reply to cecil. Sorry Cecil, but the access-board is not a regulatory agency and their guidelines carry zero weight. Again, there is no enforceable guidance and you know it.

By: Hugo S Cunningham

Hugo S Cunningham — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 21:17:00 +0000

Individualized conversion of many files (e.g. Berkeley lectures) can be prohibitively expensive. Congress should empower the Library of Congress to create a web portal that the disabled can use to see converted versions of sites they are interested in. Congressional appropriations should emphasize *automated* techniques to read all sites, rather than a small number that happen to have been individually converted. With that principle established, Congress should shut down ADA lawsuits against individual sites, aka “reinventing the wheel.”

By: cecil

cecil — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:49:22 +0000

Lol Jim! Maybe you should have answered “all that can make it up the stairs” instead? Then they could have put it down on the first floor? My response hasn’t been to lawyer up. Instead I try to get in touch with the site admin(s), explain the problem, make suggestions for fixing it if I have any. I find that works much better. Okay, so it doesn’t result in a payday for anyone, but that’s not the point in the first place.