“Of course they do MattS. People are using the labels and stickers by putting them on the sound boards to say “this is a Steinway.””

No, this case is NOT about people making fake Steinway pianos. It’s about people reselling real Steinway pianos that had been repaired/restored with aftermarket parts.

“That’s the same thing as fake Gucci bags or fake cell phones.”

No, reselling a real Steinway piano (or a Pontiac GTO) repaired/restored with aftermarket parts is in no way, shape or form, equivalent to manufacturing straight up forgeries of brand name products.

Now, if someone is manufacturing aftermarket parts for Steinway pianos with Steinway logos on them (which the linked article suggests is happening), Steinway would have the kind of case against the manufacturers of the aftermarket parts, but they still don’t have a case against someone re-selling a genuine Steinway piano repaired/restored with those parts.

Steinway has no case here.

Of course they do MattS. People are using the labels and stickers by putting them on the sound boards to say “this is a Steinway.”

That’s the same thing as fake Gucci bags or fake cell phones.

Steinway has the right to protect their product from those whose actions would devalue it through false claims.

“A better analogy would be that if you found in a barn an old Pontiac GTO, fixed the exterior up with parts, replaced the engine, changed the chassis to a modern chassis, put new suspension parts on it, etc, you cannot call it a “numbers matching GTO.”

You cannot call it an “original GTO.””

That doesn’t really help Steinway here.

In this case, the buyer who discovered he bought a restoration, rather than a numbers matching original, could sue the seller for fraud, but Pontiac would not have a valid cause of action to sue the seller.

By the way, even if the restoration was done use all genuine Pontiac parts, this would still be a fraud.

“It will not have the same sound, the same value or the same history as a true Steinway.”

This is true, but it’s a matter of fraud between the seller and the buyer. Steinway has no case here.

There likely are a lot of replacement parts on those old Cessna 152’s and 172’s. If all those parts aren’t original Cessna parts, or rebuilt / repaired / restored in an official Cessna MRO center, does that suddenly mean the airplane is question is no longer a Cessna?

There are lots of differences in your plane and piano comparison.

In the case of a plane, we are talking about model numbers. We are talking about an item that by law has records of when parts are replaced, the make and the mfg of the part, the model number of the part, etc. If one found an old Cessna air frame (just the frame) and put new parts including wings, controls surfaces, controls, electronics, etc, you would have to disclose that the parts were not original Cessna parts as an original plane is worth more than one rebuilt with second market parts.

In the case of a Steinway, the sound board and the pins are the central parts of the piano. Steinway (as to many manufacturers of pianos) jealously guard not only the casting process but the metal composition of the sound board. If you repair the piano using parts that are inferior to originals and then want to stick a decal on it saying “this is a Steinway,” you lying and arguably harming Steinway and their sound.

A better analogy would be that if you found in a barn an old Pontiac GTO, fixed the exterior up with parts, replaced the engine, changed the chassis to a modern chassis, put new suspension parts on it, etc, you cannot call it a “numbers matching GTO.”

You cannot call it an “original GTO.”

If you replace the sound board and pegs in a Steinway with something other than licensed an official Steinway parts, you should not be able to call it a Steinway piano because it is not.

It will not have the same sound, the same value or the same history as a true Steinway.

“The question is whether Steinway will saw off the limb, or saw off the tree.”

Steinway does seem to be headed for a Wile E. Coyote moment.

Will you still be you tomorrow?

I don’t know. As a great philosopher once said, it’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

But I think it’s safe to say that Steinway has climbed out on a legal limb with a saw. The question is whether Steinway will saw off the limb, or saw off the tree.

Blah, blah, blah…philosophers.

The same bunch that says two objects never collide since for any interval, there is always half way to go, the Dichotomy Paradox.

Except philosophers fail to comprehend the mathematics of limit theorems. Or experimental Newtonian Physics in the simple experiment of their cheek slapping the palm of my hand.

Philosophers being ignorant of math and physics? Perish the thought.

😉

In any event, Steinway is way off base on this.

The cells in your body are constantly being replaced. Will you still be you tomorrow?

Ship Airplane Piano of Theseus?

No Name Guy wrote on January 10, 2019 1:08 PM:

No. Its still a Cessna 152 or 172. Always was, always will be.

Same goes for a Steinway piano similarly maintained or rebuilt.

Your assertion is the subject of a longstanding paradox or thought experiment dating at least from Heraclitus and Plato. It is known as The Ship of Theseus.

You will find it described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus